[Guide] “Rage Quit and back again” or How I learned to stop worrying (about 5* s) and Love the 4* s ( told in links )[ 1- 16 months, Manual, Road map]

[Guide] “Rage Quit and back again” or How I learned to stop worrying (about 5* s) and Love the 4* s ( told in links )[ 1- 16 months, Manual, Road map]

OLD Subject
[Links, Links, Links] Not a Bug update- Rage Quit and Back Again or What I wish I knew when I started Empires, rage quit Empires and was lured back to Empires by my loving spouse- Last Update 2019-Jan

This post is to gather many useful links together for my reference, and other players.

==Not a Bug==

( MASTER THREAD (Solved) - Training Camp Lost food/recruits at withdrawal )

(I can't have more than 9 recruits before it says I'm full)

([Wiki] *NOT* a bug FAQ)

==Wish I knew at the start==

Empires Jargon
(The E&P Jargon-Pulverising Fictionary (glossary, definitions, dictionary))

First 3* team
Part 1 ( linky, linky )

First 4* team
Part 2 ( linky, linky )

Second 3* team
Part 3 ( linky, linky )

Food costs when leveling- 3* / 4* / 5* heroes
([Reference, Math] Leveling 3* / 4* / 5* heroes, generic food comparison)

Farming to fill special elemental chest ( rare Wanted elemental mission chest )
(Farming to Fill Special Elemental Chests)

Wu Kong- Tactics
([Play Style] The cascade squad or Wu Kong+ two healers- New Notes 2019-Mar)

Wu Kong- Heroes choices for Cascade squad
(Spots open 3 - [Sample Chat, Tips, Laughs] Twilights Bastion Chat- Are we a good fit for you? Then join us [Alliance advert with links])

Discussions about leveling heroes ( 3* Heroes will change, for the better, in an upcoming update )
( [Links, Links, Links] Discussions about leveling heroes- Updated 2018-Jun-06 )

Elemental summons rotation
([Wiki, Primer] Elemental summons rotation or RBGYP- 47 hours each)

Defense AI ( how defense works in raiding )
([Primer] Defense AI Cheats or why computer gets first move, trickle mana & bonus damage and how to exploit/ defend against it for more trophies)

TC11 Recruit bank
( The TC11 Recruit Bank )

Recruit & Food hoards
([Play style] Recruit (RT4/ RT11) & Food (RT13/ RT20) Hoards- Updated 4-14 )

Hero Roster ( max special skill, max tier, max level, stats for heroes )
(New! All Updated Hero Rosters)

Memento Quests
( 💫 Memento Quests )

Memento 4 Events
(🌟 Memento 5 Events)

Memento seasonal events
(🌿 Memento seasonal event)

Forum bookmarks
([Tip]Searching your forum bookmarks)

How to follow the Devs on the forum
([Forum tip] How to stalk, er, follow the Devs)

Stopping loot parade display
([Tip] Tap on screen to stop loot parade)

Pre-firing special skill during Titan attack animation
([Tip] Updated - new name method or v2.0 - Pre-firing Special skill during Titan animation)

Map Loot
(📜 Map Loot (increased chance of finding) and Craft List)

Farming 1.8-7
(8-7 the best farming stage ever? Forget that)

Most current, farming data spreadsheet- Update 2019-Jan-04
(Calling all farming data collectors)

Double strong colors
([Primer] Double Strong colors on team Part 1)

Titan: Grades, Loot Tiers
(Titans: Grades, Loot Tiers, and You)

Deciding where to spend class emblems- Updated 2019-Feb-06
( Deciding where to spend your class emblems - Tourney update 2019-Mar [Math, Analysis] )

Hero Classes- Update 2019-Jan-15
(🦸 Memento Heroes Classes and Quests)

Classes raw data spreadsheet, Update 2019-Jan-15
(Hero classes & talents guide)

Tips about your account info
([Tips, Help] But I didn't do ANYTHING but my account is trashed/ banned ! or Common mistakes, cons, and other nefarious methods to get your money, trash your account, or get you banned AND How to prevent this from happening)

==Wish I knew when I rage quit==

Train camps and Hero XP
([Play style] When to level your first rainbow 5* team based on Hero XP from training camps, team depth, team versatility, war, and upcoming class update- Updated with food costs)

==The Core truth of Empires==

4* Heroes are the back bone of Empires.

==Wish I knew when I was lured back==

Ratio of 3* to 4* ascension items
([Play style] When to level your first rainbow 5* team based on Hero XP from training camps, team depth, team versatility, war, and upcoming class update- Updated with food costs)

==Where am I now==

Play style- No remorse
([Play style] No Remorse 4*/ 5* leveling)

==Game of Chance==

Without trade, Empires is like Poker. You can play penny ante, or $1k USD ante, depending on your choices, and budget, but your chips are your chips. When they are gone, they are gone.

You cannot beat Lady Luck ( random chance ), but you can leave a bad hand, and try and improve a strong hand. Just don’t expect to get five Aces, or a Royal Flush.

The links in this post helped me learn to identify a bad hand, a strong hand, and stop dreaming of a Royal Flush.

But I still dream of hero trades between players, and no one can ever take that dream away from me.

==Useful links==

(Can You Migrate a Whole Alliance? The Migration Toolkit)

==Related Article==

([Links, Links, Links ] Waiting for 5* heroes or effective use of 4* and 3* Hero teams from Legendary training- Updated 2018-Jun-03)



Wonderland Heroes - Will they make your main team? What do you think of Cheshire Cat, Alice, Queen of Hearts QoH, The Hatter, Captain of Diamonds? How do they work? [MASTER]
Is colen worth ascending?
[Primer] Your first 4* team or Intro to getting 3*/ 4* Heroes, leveling, picking, farming, double color and war ( Part 2 )
How do you keep 4 TCs busy
Talented 3* vs 4* vs 5*
Maxed 4* Compared to 3rd tier 5*
Need help with my first 5* team
If an Alliance Leader quits or is inactive, what can you do?
5* Ascension help
Wu Kong grinder gang or Powerful rainbow auto play team or Wu Kong plus 4 healers
Kadilen or wait?
New player, having some issues with blue and red. Your advice?
Wu what' the point?
[Analysis, Math] Minimum buildings for Training Camp 20- Updated 2019-Jun
[Analysis, Math] Minimum buildings for Training Camp 20- Updated 2019-Jun
New player, having some issues with blue and red. Your advice?
Tc11 Storage Amount Curiosity. Just for fun
Calculation of level points of the training camp
Ramming pulverizers
So how many years to level 5*?
Deciding where to spend your class emblems - Tourney update 2019-Mar [Math, Analysis]
Help with understanding tiles
2 tc11 or 1 tc13?
Gryph, Doc - Can I get your advice?
What order should I put my heroes in?
Hero power calculation – why does a 5* Hero with lower stats than a 4* Hero have a higher Card Power?
Guardians of Teltoc Help / Suggestion
Stronghold Question – Upgrade Iron Storages to 18 before Upgrading to Stronghold 19?
[Discussion, Investigation] Collecting finished heroes from Legendary training, Gem summons and summons coding [Camps, Tokens, Gems, Coins, Luck, RNG, RNG seed, 1x, 10+]
Seriously? [extreme cup-dropping]
ARCHIVED Before Advanced House 9 and Atlantis Rising, Uncommon training versus Extra fast training
[Guide, Camps, Roster] What camps to run, and for how long, often depends on your roster
Is Kadilen the only fast hit all hero?
[Play style] Quick ramp up for war on alt or 80%, 90%, 100% base stats or heroes not max level for current tier
Perseus’ HOTM pros and cons
Gems . Keep them? Atlantis vs Guardians
Whom should I level first, Proteus or Jabbar (hear me out...)?
4* to 3-60 or 3* Maxed?
How Long to Wait Before Working on 5* Heroes?
This game's entire PVP has become a "Guess the Starting Board" contest and it's NOT OKAY
Should I ascend Wu Kong or Guardian gazelle?
Domitia or Clarissa?
Hero advices for beginner
[Repost, Training Camps] Recruit training - common training ( RT01 ) to Legendary training ( RT20 ) - Advice, Stats, and Math
Ramming Pulverizer-Who's your favorite?
Which 4* to level up first, Cyprian or Proteus?
Classic 4* heroes and emblems or Gryphonknight's emblem spending plan EXPOSED
Rigard or Tiburtus?
Worth it to ascend bad 5*?
Summoning Gate Types and Dates?
Domitia - my shiny new hero
Deciding where to spend your class emblems - Tourney update 2019-Mar [Math, Analysis]
Kunchen or Obakan
Domitia - my shiny new hero
Catching up to the long term players
ARCHIVED Before Advanced House 9 and Atlantis Rising, Uncommon training versus Extra fast training
Rigard and Melendor ( together they fight crime) for 3-1-1 raiding or rainbow raiding
Lets say Thanks to beloved Players!
[Photo] Base, Vacation ready/ Rage quit ready
Superfast leveling up
How important is the rainbow?
Fully ascension vs half way thru
New Player Priorities Question
Beginner Needing Base Guidance
Maxing out heroes
Captain Kestrel, Is he really not good?
Ameonna or Cheshire
Emblems on 3* heroes. Who would you choose?
New hero AMEONNA - what the heck does she do?
Newb question- Season 1 Map and 1600 Team Power
[Rant, Primer, Summons] 2019 Summons x1 versus x10 - now with Taxi Driver simile
[Theory] Rare chest loot changed? or The Great Rebalancing of 2017 or v1.4
Skittleskull or Caedmon - who would you train first?
Out of storage- annoying iron storage pop up
Worth it to ascend bad 5*?
Who chose what heroes are what classes
Rainbow 3* team would you replace any
Rainbow 3* team would you replace any
Need Advice getting threw Season 1 and set team
Talent Tree help for Grimm and Sabina?

I hate the comparison between this game and poker so much


Which analogy would you use?

I thought of Bridge since you can change trump suit. But I am not familiar with betting and Bridge. Homicides ( actual, honest to god, went to court murder ) but not betting.

I thought of Baseball with designated hitters and batting line up, but more people have experience with poker than managing a softball team. Plus hero cards cannot talk back when you sacrifice them for matching/ board/ physical damage.

it’s more like a slot machine.

You can play the nickel slots or go to the high roller room and do the $100 a pull machines. Either way, the waitress will come around and give you free drinks.

1 Like

Definitely more like a slot machine. You don’t have any control over the outcome of summoning heroes. You might get lucky you probably won’t and you keep feeding the random number generator hoping for a certain result. This game doesn’t have a large skill gap between players either. Just a budget gap.

You are saying there is no skill in assembling a team from the heroes you are given? There is no skill in learning ally Boldtusk’s buff can overwrite enemy Scarlett’s debuff? There is no difference between a 4* 1.1 summoned hero and a 4* 4.70 hero? The 4* heroes from Legendary training cannot beat Guinevere ( Gryphonkit, my wife, loves to fight Guinevere with her team including 4* 4.70 Cyprian )?

I politely disagree when it comes to 4* heroes, the back bone of Empires.

Poker is very similar to 4* heroes and Empires. Four Aces and Royal Flush are out of my reach, but full house and three of a kind will still win me the pot.

The game is definitely more Pay to win right now ( see 4 month rage quit and loss of 4 months of VIP Pass ), especially with most of the development cycles going to 5* heroes, but my wife lured me back with the friendships you make. And her ability to make 4* 4.70 heroes do things the developers never meant them to do, especially to limited time 5* heroes.

I have faith Small Giant games is moving towards a model that rewards cash players and free players. But the game is less than 2 years old.


I mean the difference between knowing how boldtusk buff works in the same team as Kiril compared to all the psychology and math etc that poker takes, it’s not comparable. This game doesn’t have anywhere near as much of a skill gap as poker. I didn’t say that there’s no skill involved, but for example the boldtusk thing you mentioned, if it isn’t obvious to a player already they will learn that as easy as somebody mentioning it once. This game is a strategy game but if you need to compare it to a card game, it’s more comparable to crazy 8’s than poker. Minimal strategy/skill required. Anybody can jump into this game and have a solid handle on it in like a week.

Also I reread what you said, Boldtusk doesn’t over write Scarlett. Boldtusk buffs ally attacks Scarlett debuffs enemy attacks.

We’re talking about the luck factor of summoning heroes, not the strategy play of what to do with those heroes once you get them. the original analogy was getting lucky with poker cards, as in looking for a royal flush, it wasn’t talking about what to do with that royal flush when you get it.

or maybe I read the “game of chance” part of the original post wrong. that’s what I took out of it. that’s why I made the slot machine comparison.

==Ally buffs and enemy debuffs==

I have clarified my original post:

==Strategy versus Luck==

I still maintain summoning heroes is like Poker.

I would use Magic the Gathering, but I can trade you my Beta Black Lotus for 40 of your dual lands in Magic ( both card types so OP they are banned ). Empires does not currently support trade like Pokemon GO did at its start ( though Pokemon GO limits trades to 1:1 and maximum of one 5* hero per calendar day ).

I can level Boldtusk to 4* 3.60 knowing his ally buff will overwrite an enemy attack debuff, unlike Sabina 4* 3.60 that does not ( 4* are the backbone of Empires and a lot easier to acquire than 5* Heroes ). Like discarding a club to try and fill a heart flush. I would not discard a heart and try and fill a club flush if I only had one club but I had three hearts. You have to understand Poker rules, and probability, to understand how to play it well. You have to understand Empires rules, and probability, to understand how to play it well.

You could even apply understanding enemy psyche to raid/ war defense team make up.

Dual lands and black lotus aren’t banned for being OP, black lotus is just only legal in the Vintage format since it’s the only format that allows cards so old to be used. Black lotus is limited though, only 1 copy per deck. Dual lands are used in legacy and vintage. And I maintain it’s insulting to poker players to compare this game to it.

May I suggest a shorter title?

“There and back again,” an E&P Journey (with Links)


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