Deciding where to spend your class emblems [Math, Analysis]


#1

Subject
Deciding where to spend your class emblems [Math, Analysis]

Terms

7/8 4* 3.60 is a hero with special 7/8, 4 stars, tier 3, level 60.

4*+5 is a hero with 5 class nodes unlocked. By definition, a 4*+5 hero is also a 8/8 4* 4.70 hero.

Simple advice

Save your emblems.

Some heroes are good, some suck, but most are okay.

Use your emblems on you first good rainbow 4* 4.70 team. ( not you first rainbow 4* team, see links ).

Like troops, you can store infinite emblems. Since resetting costs gems, and 5% of your emblems reset are lost ( Example 26 emblems are lost to reset a 4*+20 ), just save your emblems until you have a 4* hero that has good synergies/ works well with other 4* heroes on your roster in different classes.

Save your ultra rare, reset emblems for moving emblems between 4* heroes as you get excellent heroes like Wu Kong, Jackal, Falcon, Hansel, Gretel, Merlin, Proteus, Wilbur, Rigard, Melendor, Grimm, etc.

Talents have a low proc rate.

The increase in stats from classes help attackers more than talents.

Classes most help a war defense by raising a hero’s defense stat and HP. This is due to the defense curve being non-linear and Damage Over Time bypassing reflect damage and defense stat.

As a very broad rule ( or a very safe guideline with resets costing gems and emblems), increasing a hero’s defense stat will have the most increase in Total Damage Output before death, followed by HP, Attack, Crit, Healing, Mana.

4* heroes are the backbone of Empires

Some heroes are good, some suck, but most are okay.

Basically, emblems increasing a 4* hero’s defense stat and HP will allow players to get effectively 5* heroes ( really 4*+19 ) from Legendary training. This solves the problem with Classic 5* heroes from Legendary being mostly solo/ non-synergistic heroes while Legendary training lacks 5* heroes with synergy/ works well with other heroes like the 4* heroes from the same training ( varied color healers, Ramming Pulverizer trio, Gambler’s Stance, etc. ).

This allows players with Wu Kong, Wilbur, Hansel, etc. to turn these awesome 4* heroes into effectively 5* heroes.

Complex advice

Team cost

Classes do not increase a hero’s team cost. So theoretically you can fit more hero under a team cap.

Power levels

From a very good friend of mine:

While power is not an absolute measure of a heroes worth, it does give you a rough gauge of the hero’s cumulative stats.

Emblems and 1* or 2* heroes

I cannot recommend using emblems on a 1* or 2* hero under any circumstances.

Yes I am planning to use emblems on Sigrunn, Layla and a few others. No, you should not follow my example. Yes, if you do follow my example, and not my advice, I will say I told you so in the future.

Legendary training versus 3*+20

Given the odds of a 4* hero from legendary training ( approximately 1 per 10 days), and the fact a 4* 3.60 hero has similar stats with a 3*+20, and 4* have better special skills, I would only use emblems on a 3* hero if you really like them ( looking at you Bane, Rudolph & Hisan ) or if you have a color missing on your rainbow 4* 3.60 to help complete 3* / 4* ascension item rare quests.

1* to 3* heroes and Reset emblem

This advice is changed if Small Giant does like Book of Heroes and decides class resetting costing gems (premium currency) and losing emblems in Empires case, was stifling creativity, experimentation and fun ( Small Giant would still make money off emblems. Resetting would still lose other materials like iron & food).

4* versus 5* emblem costs versus results

Unlocking 5 / 5 Talent requires 350 emblems for a 4* hero and 975 emblems for a 5* hero.

Unlocking all nodes on a 4* hero costs 505 emblems, which only unlocks 3/5 Talent on a 5* hero. Example: a 4* Monk would have a 30% chance to resist status ailments while the same emblems buy a 18% chance for a 5* Monk.

Unlocking all the class nodes after unlocking 5 / 5 Talent on a 5* hero costs 525 emblems, more than the 505 emblems to unlock all 20 nodes of a 4* hero.

The last node on a 5* Hero costs 250 emblems.

Both 4* and 5* Paladins gets the biggest boost from the last talent node. Other classes, depending on troops and other situational variables, may see little practical effect.

4*+19 Heroes

Some heroes are good, some suck, but most are okay.

In general ( this is a guide, for exact advice please discuss your questions with your alliance teammates or post a topic on the forums ), 4*+19 Heroes are the most cost effective use of you emblems until you have three good rainbow 4*+19 teams ( total of fifteen heroes ) and a good 4*+19 hero, or 5* 4.80 hero, in each class.

More powerful alliance gets better loot

Titan Loot

Having your alliance go from 1 ascension roll per titan loot to 2 ascension rolls is a huge milestone. Your alliance going from 2 rolls to 3 rolls is a 50% increase in chance to get 3*/ 4* ascension items. But going from 3 rolls to 4 rolls is only a edit: 33% increase

4*+19 heroes will let more players get 3 ascension item rolls on titan loot. Since 3*+20 heroes are only about a powerful as 4* 3.60 heroes, getting more 3* ascension items by getting more ascension item rolls, will significantly increase the power of your alliance and your enjoyment of the game.

Using emblems on 5* heroes

Some heroes are good, some suck, but most are okay.

Until you have two to three good rainbow 5* 4.80 teams ( ten to fifteen heroes ) AND three good rainbow 4*+19 teams ( fifteen heroes ) AND a good 4*+19 hero, or 5* 4.80 hero, in each class, I would advise against spending emblems on 5* heroes.

There will be exceptions like Alberich and Natayla ( together they fight crime ) but that will depend on your roster of heroes and future game decisions by Small Giant Games ( The Hero Academy sounds interesting ).

Emblems versus 4* ascension items

Unlike missing 1 Poison dart to ascend Joon 5* 3.70 to 5* 4.1, you can raise Wu Kong from 4*+5 to 4*+6 with 15 Monk emblems, you do not require the full 505 Monk emblems.

Raising Wu Kong from 4*+5 to 4*+6 will also immediately improve Wu Kong, like going from level 4* 4.17 to 4* 4.21 .

Getting more quest emblems and 4* ascension items

Completing the Class quests and getting 4* ascension items from Seasonal events is easiest, and cost the least battle items, if you have a good rainbow 4*+19 / 5* 4.80 team.

War teams are most difficult to defeat if they are 4*+19 / 5* 4.80 heroes.

Getting a good 4* hero in each class and then raising it to 4*+19, will help you a lot in completing game objectives and having fun.

Reset Penalty and 5* heroes

Resetting emblems on a 5*+20 loses 75 emblems.

My Personal Opinion

Classes restored my faith in Small Giant Games.

Between Legendary training and 4*+19 heroes, you have a reasonable chance of completing most of the games PvE content.

Eventually you will have a decent roster of 4*+19 / 5* 4.80 heroes and then you will be able to get really quirky with some 3* to 5* Heroes and class nodes.

Bonus Stage

Edit:
This is a really good, really fun idea.

I have unlocked the first node on my Wu Kong Cascade Squad and it is fun when a talent procs even though the chance is low.

So after I have a decent roster of 4*+19/ 5* 4.80, my next step will be to just unlock the first node of the talent grid for all my favorite heroes.

Just to add more fun to the game.

Rogue 4*+1 Glass cannons

Links

First 4* team

Classes
(Memento Heroes Classes and Quests)

Class raw data spreadsheet
(Hero classes & talents guide)

Similar topics

Or

#player-guides


Inari vs Musashi vs Onatel
Due to cost of maxing a 5* talent, is it better to max a 4* team first?
Is Brienne worth levelling
Worth it to ascend bad 5*?
Classes and the defense meta
“Rage Quit and back again” or How I learned to stop worrying (about 5* s) and Love the 4* s ( told in links )
Classic 4* heroes and emblems or Gryphonknight's emblem spending plan EXPOSED
Classic 4* heroes and emblems or Gryphonknight's emblem spending plan EXPOSED
#2

This post is fantastic (as usual for your guide posts), thanks for putting it together!

Having read through the whole thing, there’s only one thing that confused me, possibly just a typo:

I couldn’t figure out where the 25% came from, since it seemed like a 33% increase from 3 rolls to 4 rolls would be the parallel to a 50% increase from 2 rolls to 3 rolls.

Some Thoughts

In terms of recommended strategy, I like that you’re not shying away from upgrading 4*.

For a player like me who doesn’t spend enough to end up with a ton of 5*, and won’t spend enough to end up with a ton of class emblems, I think heroes like Wilbur and Proteus being upgraded will give me a lot of functional mileage.

And, frankly, I think it’ll be more fun for me to upgrade them than waiting around for a perfect 5* to give emblems to.

While I like maximizing my efficiency, this is, after all, a game, and I’d like to enjoy both the present and the long run of it.

I actually don’t even see the reset penalty being that bad. On a 4*+20, at worst, presuming no reset emblem is available, you lose 25 (26?) emblems. That’s only 1.7% of what’s needed for maxing a 5* anyway, and not an insane amount to need to obtain again from class quests or loot when considering the 995 additional emblems you’d need anyway to max a 5* instead of a 4*.

So I personally plan to gleefully enhance my key 4* — those that provide major utility and get extremely frequent use — and enjoy them.


#3

Brilliant thank you!


#4

Thank you @Gryphonknight! Great post! :+1:


#5

Gotta agree with his points about 4* heroes. I’m going to be focusing on wilbur and proteus first myself.

Agwe would be a great one as well.


#6

It seems logical to boost 4* units if you don’t have good 5*, but I’m wondering why you would level 4* units before good 5* like HotM or good TC20 heroes? For example, if you have GM, would you not want to start on him that you use everyday instead of boosting some 4* barbarian that you only use in a war?


#7

this is literally the math I was doing as the class system was first announced and fully understood how much it would allow players of each caliber further enhance their gameplay at there current levels making the constant gripes of “who has what” go down to which is the best way to build tier on certain characters.

If you truly enjoy the game then you will see how this system benefits everyone and allows 4 star characters to help outshine low level 5 stars waiting on ascension items. It will be intersting yo see how everything is going by the time the Atlantis portal gets to its final opening. great post and good luck out there


#8

Yeah, this is what I suspected would be the prevailing advice. Just as the advice is to level 4* before 5*, be certain of where your emblems go, and put them where it is most efficient (i.e. 4* gain same amounts as 5* do, but at 1/3rd the cost).

Efficiency really is the name of the game. Well… Empires & Efficiency… but it’s close enough, at least.


#9

Outstanding analysis, as always. Thank you!

My read is that your advice is spot-on. The practical implications of the differential training prices for 4* vs 5* and the low drop rates for emblems is that there’s going to be a LOT of compression in Diamond arena in 6 months, as mixed 4/70+19 and 5/80+0 teams compete favorably with the 5/80+10 teams that the higher end players have.


#10

An excellent article and I agree with the overwhelming majority of it, with one caveat, that being to focus solely on 4’s for now. My reasoning here is thus and only applies to players who have full 5 teams: Many defense teams are comprised of fully leveled 5’s, and this would then usually also apply to an AW defense team, 5s are generally the first team you use to attack with in AW, and many players have fully leveled 5 teams for Titans as well. This being the case, wouldn’t it make more sense to then invest in those 5’s? Especially the ones that rank highly on everyone’s ranking list, and especially the tank position hero of your defense team. Yes these class tokens will bring rank 4 hero’s to a rank 5 equivalency, however while some players are making 5 power out of 4’s, many players will be making 6 power out of 5’s. Yes it will take longer to do so, but if you already have 5’s that you spend most of your time playing with in this game, I would think that would be where you would get the most benefit from spending class emblems.


#11

Completing Class quests

Because that 4*+19 might be in a class quest you have Zero 5* heroes eligible. Or the 4*+19 might have a special skill like healer, or dispeller, that you lack for taking out a Class quest Boss.

It is all about getting more emblems ( emphasis added ):

If you can already complete all ten class quests ( for Trials of Strength I needed a Miracle scroll - they still suck - and a 75g Revive) it is very safe for you to level your 5* heroes.

Efficiency versus Fun

All of this would be unnecessary, and tons more fun, if Devs had a timer for free resetting of emblems that could be bypassed by a reset emblem or sped up with gems.

Upcoming, unseen 4* / 5* heroes

Rumor is that many beta testers had huge holes in 5* heroes.

edit: it appears Devs assigned classes based on upcoming, unseen Season 2 heroes and not currently available 4* / 5* heroes.


#12

Interesting. Well, then, my crystal ball is telling me we’re going to be seeing some new healers besides just Kunchen.


#13

I am hoping some of the unseen 3* from families contain blue, yellow or purple healers and the 4* include a 4* yellow healer.


#14

Hello Gryphonknight,

Thanks for this great guide. It will be incredibly helpful starting into classes/emblems!

On the lack of healers in classes: do you think that adding emblems to 3* heroes with healing/spirit link in classes which lack healers would be wasteful? I’m currently looking at Friar Tuck and Gunnar to address some of the holes in monk/paladin… A 4* 3/60 equivalent in some of the quests would be really helpful at my level (3 months in, 3 x 4/70 heroes).

Thanks!

Ish


#15

Umm, no. The only “unseen” heroes yet are Ariel, Atomos and Poseidon. Last seen as a Cleric, Barbarian and Fighter, respectively. Every class has at least two Classic 5*; the trouble is that the popular Classics (and limited-edition) heroes are clustered in four-five classes, leaving some others lightly populated in most people’s rosters. I view that choice as somewhat intentional – e.g. help Elkanen out some by making him one of the few clerics, so people may consider leveling him to have a good home for their Cleric emblems.


#16

Clarity

I have edited the original post for clarity.

Russian leaks

There are several leaked images supposedly not yet in Beta “Noble Heroes of the Month” in Russian, but Google translate does not like the font for each hero’s name ( ‘no pupil girl ‘ is scary).

Balancing families

Also families appear to be incomplete at this time.


#17

Your Google fu is clearly stronger than mine.


#18

Great guide, thanks!

Are there any more details on the following items:


#19

Sure are!

This is the quintessential thread on how damage calculation works, if you haven’t read it already, I highly recommend it:


#20

Subject
Latest edit- Bonus Stage

Bonus Stage

This is a really good, really fun idea.

I have unlocked the first node on my Wu Kong Cascade Squad and it is fun when a talent procs even though the chance is low.

So after I have a decent roster of 4*+19/ 5* 4.80, my next step will be to just unlock the first node of the talent grid for all my favorite heroes.

Just to add more fun to the game.