[History, quotes] Athena the god tier hero or nerfing the damage curve or complicated hero interactions

[Gryphonknight]

Subject
[History, quotes] Athena the god tier hero or nerfing the damage curve or complicated hero interactions.

God tier Athena’s fall from godhood was a combination of rewriting the damage curve, nerfs, stealth nerfs, adding elite 5* attack buffers ( Tarlak/ Ranvir/ Miki ), adding more elemental defense debuff 5* heroes and more rainbow/ generic/ multipurpose defense debuff 5* heroes.

For defense hero, see

([History, quotes] Boldtusk the Ex Demigod or nerfing defense teams or complicated hero interactions)

Nerf Apocalypse

@Gryphonknight

Live server

Athena was nerfed so often because players kept finding ways to break the game with Athena.

Athena came out in 2017-July, and last nerf was changing the damage formula in 2017-November.

Solo

@zephyr1

it looks like during her first month of availability even.

As released, Athena was insanely powerful alone.

I have heard some truly strange rumors about Athena live server v1.0 ( after I downloaded Empires but before my time on the forum), but just searching the forum shows Athena was very very powerful.

Synergy

Originally Athena stacked with Isarnia/ Grimm/ Gormek/ Tibutus just like Vela+ Telluria works well together. So that was nerfed.

Wu Kong+ Tarlak was stopped in Beta.

Elemental defense down

Just like Vela 5*+20 and Telluria 5*+20 on war defense teams, Athena + Panther/ Falcon/ Jackal became a problem they eventually had to address.

In fact they eventually rewrote the damage formula because of it.

Reaction

Players were very vocal about all this nerfing. Both players that had Athena, and those without Athena.

Notes

Stacking

(Athena Solution)

Damage formula

(Damage decreased - #7 by Gryphonknight)

(Defense debuff stacking 1.8 vs 1.9)

FIN

Elemental defense debuff

Arthur ( 5* blue ), Evelyn ( 5* green ), Frida ( 5* blue - because Arthur only target not target and nearby ) were added to Panther ( 5* purple ), Falcon ( effectively a 5* red - see notes ), and Jackal ( very fast mana speed - and revive scrolls - needed for this fragile hero so yellow is once again disadvantaged ).

These elemental defense debuff heroes also encourage Empire’s hidden buff, basic color stacking and advanced color stacking ( see notes ).

Elite 5* attack buffers

(Titan Damage Boosters: Miki vs. Tarlak vs. Ranvir vs. Wu Kong vs. Guardian Gazelle)

Rainbow/ generic/ multipurpose defense debuff 5* heroes

More rainbow/ generic/ multipurpose defense debuff 5* heroes were added to the game ( Finley, Kunchen, Santa, White rabbit )

Notes

Click for notes

Falcon

Falcon+ Boldtusk+ Wilbur synergy

@Gryphonknight

Falcon, Boldtusk, Wilbur, Gormek, etc. ) that have special skills that help the whole team ( see notes )

Basic color stacking

Click for basic color stacking

@Gryphonknight

==Double strong color, no weak color, teams==

Now that you have two rainbow teams ( one 3* 3.50 and one 4* 3.60 ) you can create double strong color, no weak color teams.

If you are attacking a Green Boss, then Red heroes are better because they are strong against green, so Green bosses takes double damage. The opposite is true of Blue heroes. Blue heroes cause half damage to a Green boss. The other colors ( Green, Purple & Yellow ) do neutral damage or no increase or decrease in damage.

When attacking a Green boss, remove your BLUE 4* 3.60 hero ( half damage against Green ) from your rainbow 4* 3.60 team, and replace it with your RED 3* 3.50 hero ( double damage against Green ) for a double red, no blue team.

You will do 1 HP of damage with blue matches/ board damage, since you are missing a Blue hero. But your two Red heroes will do double damage. Even if your Red 3* 3.50 hero dies against a Green boss, twice its attack stat will still be added when doing matching/ board/ physical damage.

==Weird color teams==

Other teams:

triple strong color,
quadruple strong color,
double neutral color,
double neutral three color teams and
single color teams.

Once you have more experience with rainbow teams and double strong color, no weak color teams, you can learn more about these weird alternatives.

==Elemental shields or Reflect color enemies==

When you fight an enemy with an elemental shield, it is weak to a color, strong to a color and REFLECTS a color. Example: A Reflect green boss takes double damage from Red heroes, half damage from Blue heroes, and reflects all damage from Green heroes back to that hero. So a triple red, no blue, no green team OR a double red, double yellow/ double purple, no blue no green team works better than a rainbow team. Example you can remove your Blue 4* 3.60 and Green 4* 3.60 heroes and replace them with one Red 3* 3.50 hero and one Purple/ Yellow 3* 3.50 hero.

So having a rainbow 3* 3.50 and a rainbow 4* 3.60 lets you take on Reflect color enemies until you level up a second rainbow 3* 3.50, second rainbow 4* 3.60, etc.

Advanced color stacking

With the damage formula unknown, players only have a partial understanding of advanced color stacking. Mostly complicated by the attack stat soft cap.

([Research] Does Color Stacking have a soft cap? or Attack stat research)

See also

Advanced color stacking, Troops

(What happens in a red color stack when Marjana is blinded, Ares has a crit buff and Gravemaker has 30% wound? OR Color stacking and RNG ( buffs, debuffs and talents ))

FIN

[Oliz]

It seems that only a few members were on the forum and possibly on the game at that time, even compared to now., I dare say also that variety was limited…yet synergy issue caused post production nerfs to a very viable hero.

With the current increase in varieties and complexities, power creeps, new HotM every month., New heroes from New portals etc …hopefully the devs are watching it to prevent repeated unexpected disruptions.

[Dan7]

This just goes to prove how horrible they made Athena after balancing her. Nobody wants that hero these days! Heck, someone please take mine away from me!

/sarcasm, if that wasn’t obvious

[Rigs]

Lovin these trips back in time @Gryphonknight

Hopefully people read this and realize current situation isn’t a first and that these things do happen

[Rigs]

Eh she was adjusted and rightfully so.

Think it’s just showing that not everything is 100% predictable as far as impacts a hero will have on the game

[HeathenHammer]

Just moving this back to the top so those clamoring for handouts can see nerfs and balance are nothing new, and instead of looking for stacks of gems and other nonsense can expect a reality check instead.