[Research] Does Color Stacking have a soft cap? or Attack stat research

[Gryphonknight]

Subject
[Research] Does Color Stacking have a soft cap? or Attack stat research

With the Challenge events, is anyone already tracking the color stacking soft cap? Or do we need to build a research initiative from the ground up?

This might explain the progression of Challenge event top scores from rare to epic to legendary

Click for details about Color stacking and possible defense stat soft cap

@Gryphonknight

Missing link

Garanwyn:

So instead of your 3-stacked tile attack being 3x as powerful as a single-hero tile attack, it’s 4.4x as powerful. That’s huge.

Fudge. Totally missed this. But it follows from the base design of MMOs. Usually in MMOs a 5* hero does exponentially increased damage versus 1* enemies to encourage updgrading heroes.

Color stacking just turns this effect up to 11. Further increasing the euphoric rush.

From a game design point of view it further reinforces the use of color specific 3*/4* ascension items making rosters of five rainbow 5* teams even more powerful and desirable than two rainbow 5* teams.

But.

Missing heroes doing a fixed 1 HP damage does balance this out especially with the 90 seconds of terror known as titans.

I will now change how I assign 3*/4* troops and class nodes for heroes I usually color stack.

This piece of info appears to be the missing link for Gryphonkit’s insanely powerful Obakon, Rigard, Tiburtus, Cyprian, Hansel attack team ( the largest factor being how their specials interact ).

Aside, Gryphonkit is really annoyed at me for being on the forums when I should be resting. Oh well, that is what weekends are for, bad choices.

MMO stat curve soft cap

Garanwyn:

But in running my own tests on PvE, this doesn’t seem to be holding up. I can’t tell yet if the problem is:

1. They split out the attacks individually at some point, like Kerridoc suggested

or

2. There really is some linearization of the X^1.35 calculation as damage increases.

It looks, after about 80 sample points, as though #2 is more likely than #1. More research is definitely needed.

I am not surprised by this result. Most MMOs have a base stat curve then a soft cap or a hard cap. This sounds like Empires implemented a soft cap where they swap out a second equation ( or a second set of constants for the core equation ) once a stat value reaches X.

In Book of Heroes the soft cap increased with the number of stars, which required us to solve the soft cap equation before we could confirm the core stat curve. Empires appears to use the same equations for 1* heroes and for 5* heroes. More research is required.

Trying to track down the value of X for the soft cap, if it exists, will dramatically simplify your research since your are trying to solve for one equation when the data results from two very different equations in an “if then” situation.

[Dralya]

Hello Gryphonknight,

Have you some new results or anything about the soft cap thing ?
I’m trying to do a sort of play tool. For titan’s teams optimisation. But, it seems that my best green team against titan gets (very, very, very) lower results in game than in excel

I’m trying to compare “theorical” damage of two differents teams on the same titan. (And make a tool for every one who want someyhing like that)

So, i’ve search the forum and see this post… Feb 19…
In Apr 20 can you tell me that we know anything more ? (please please please, i don’t want to throw away this play tool because of a mystery soft cap)

[Gryphonknight]

@Dralya

Have you some new results or anything about the soft cap thing ?

No.

The actual professional math people working on it have retired from the game.

It is complicated by Empires not listening minimum and maximum damage like many other MMOs. With those games you can reconfigure your parties and check changes in minimum and maximum damage without wasting time trying to figure out the random part of the damage, the reduction in damage from defense, the effect of strong color, the effect of crit, etc.

To my knowledge, there are no data miners - like Pokémon GO or Stardew Valley - that actually analyze the client code to publish exact formulas including the RNG code.

For me, it has been very frustrating to have very strong evidence of an attack stat soft cap, but insufficient skills, and data, to calculate it.

[Gryphonknight]

5*+20 Defense teams

@Gryphonknight

We miss you @Garanwyn

Likely attack stat soft cap versus non-linear defense for 5*+20 heroes.

@Garanwyn

You need to be a bit careful with statements like that. There’s very strong evidence that the stacking effect linearizes at high stacks like 4-1 or 5-0. But the same is not true for added defense on a single hero.

Further, the 20% defense boost for defenders magnifies the +Defence gained through emblems. The number of tiles required for a kill will likely get worse, not better, for color stacks with emblems against tanks with emblems.