Mana Generation under buffs / debuffs in offense

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Mana buffs/debuffs have always existed ever since the game was first released and has been understood and studied by various players in the past (Link1, Link2, Link3). But with the advent of numerous mana related heroes over the years many of us might be interested in what exactly happens when a hero undergo mana alteration and how many tiles we require to charge our heroes in those conditions, especially when your heroes are already partially charged. Some of us might also be interested to see if a certain amount of mana boost can help reduce the number of tiles required under these conditions.

In order to determine this, I use the following formula:

P x (100 + MB) + Q x (100 + MB + MA) + MS = 100 x R ---- (Eq.1)

where,

P = Number of tiles before mana alteration is applied
Q = Number of tiles required to fill after mana alteration is applied
MB = Percentage of inherent mana boost (troops, emblems, costume bonus, etc.)
MA = Percentage value of altered mana (considered positive for mana boosts like Ariel, and negative for mana debuffs like Telluria)
MS = Mana units added/subtracted under special cases (discussed at the end)
R = Mana speed factor whose values depend on hero speed as follows

R = 6.5 (for very fast heroes)
R = 8 (for fast heroes)
R = 10 (for average heroes)
R = 12 (for slow heroes)
R = 13.5 (for very slow heroes)
R = 4.9 / 9.8 / 14.7 (for 3x ninja charges, respectively)

The premise of this formula is very simple. Imagine each hero has a mana tank (like fuel tanks in cars) which can contain a certain amount of mana fluid (similar to petrol/diesel), When you make a match of the same colour as the hero, each tile fills the tank with 100 units of this mana fluid. But every hero does not fill with the same amount of tiles; this is because the mana capacity of different heroes is different. The mana tank of a very slow hero (1350 mana units) is much larger than the mana tank of a very fast hero (650 units) and hence requires more number of tiles to fill up, which is what the mana speed factor R takes care of. The first term of the formula on the left side simply modifies the amount of mana each tile generates by any kind of inherent mana boost (troops, emblems, costumes, family bonus). The reason I call them inherent is because once the fight starts they cannot be removed or altered in any way. The second term of the formula on the left side of the equation takes care of any kind of mana alterations (buffs or debuffs). I multiply everything by 100, just to make the percentage calculations more simpler without involving any decimals.

If someone is simply interested in determining the percentage boost (MB) required to charge a particular hero with a certain number of tiles ( P ), without any mana debuff, then simply assume Q=0, thus Eq. (1) reduces to

P x (100 + MB) = 100 x R ---- (Eq. 2)

Ghosting Tiles:

When you “ghost” a tile, that is send them through an empty space without hitting any hero, it is counted as two tiles (thus, providing twice the amount of mana unit that a single tile would generate). So, remember to choose the values of P and Q accordingly in such situations. For example, if you ghost an entire match-3 purple tiles, it will count as 6 purple tiles. If two of those tiles hit a hero and the third one goes through an empty space, then it will count as 4 purple tiles, and so on.

Anyway, let’s see a few examples: (For simplicity’s sake, we will ignore MS in all the examples)

Example 1: Inherent Mana boost

Click Here for Calculations

Without any kind of mana boost (MB = 0), if an average mana hero (R = 10) requires P amount of tiles, then from Eq. (2) we have P x (100) = 1000, or P = 10. That is an average mana hero requires 10 tiles to completely fill the mana bar.

Now, if you want to determine what value of percentage mana boost (MB) enables us to charge an average mana hero with 9 tiles (P=9) instead of 10, then from Eq. (2) we have 9 x (100 + MB) = 1000, or MB = 11.11 (~12%). Charging an average hero in 9 tiles instead of 10 gives you a huge boost in gameplay, as when you do 3x 3 matches, the said hero will charge up along with your fast heroes of the same colour (who require 8 tiles to charge) and thus the specials can be fired together for more synergy. Example, Grimm (average) + Magni (fast), Frida (average) + Vela (fast), Gormek (average) + Scarlett (fast), etc.

There are multiple ways in which you can obtain this 12% mana boost. One can simply use a level 23 mana troop (13%). One can use costume bonus (5%) + level 5 mana troop (7%) and so on and so forth. But don’t worry, you don’t need to calculate all these situations individually, the awesome EnP player base has already got you covered on this one. This is the premise on which this following chart is based on, where it shows the different ways in which one can decrease the number of tiles to fill the mana bar for heroes of different speeds.

Click here for relevant chart

Example 2: Boosted Mana / Mana Buff

Click Here for Calculations

Let’s take an example of a fast hero like Lianna (R = 8) under Ariel’s mana boost (MA = 24%).

a) Case 1: P = 0, MB = 0

Here, we assume that Lianna has no inherent mana boost (MB = 0), but Ariel’s boost is active (MA = 24%). Thus, Eq. (1) gives us Q x (100 + 24) = 800, or Q = 6.45 ~ 7. Thus, Lianna now requires 7 tiles to fully charge instead of the usual 8 tiles.

b) Case 2: P = 0, MB = 11%

Here, we assume Lianna has a level 11 mana troop (MB = 11%), and Ariel’s boost is active (MA = 24%). Thus, Eq. (1) gives us Q x (100 + 11 + 24) = 800, or Q = 5.93 ~ 6. Thus, Lianna now requires only 6 tiles (just 2 green 3-matches, or 1x ghosted green 3-match) to fully charge instead of the usual 8 tiles, which is awesome.

Example 3: Reduced Mana / Mana Debuff

Click Here for Calculations

Let’s take the example of an average cleanser like Rigard (R = 10) under Telluria’s mana debuff (MA = -24%) and study a few cases:

a) Case 1: P = 0, MB = 0

Here, we take a normal Rigard with no mana boost (critical troop) and no purple matches were made before Telluria fired. Thus Eq. (1) gives us Q x (100 – 24) = 1000, or Q = 13.15 ~ 14. Thus, in this situation you would need 14 purple tiles to fully charge Rigard (Not good at all!!!)

b) Case 2: P = 3, MB = 9%

Here, we take a normal Rigard with a level 11 mana troop (MB = 9%) and one purple 3-match was made before Telluria fired. Thus, Eq. (1) gives us 3 x (100 + 9) + Q x (100 + 9 – 24) = 1000, or Q = 7.92 ~ 8. Thus, we will still need 8 more tiles to charge him completely.

c) Case 3: P = 6, MB = 20%

Here, we have a costumed Rigard (5% mana bonus) with a level 23 mana troop (13%) and 2% class node bonus (total MB = 20%), and suppose we have made 2 purple 3-matches (6 tiles) before Telluria fired. Then, Eq. (1) gives us 6 x (100 + 20) + Q x (100 + 20 - 24) = 1000, or Q = 2.91 ~ 3. This is good news. So now, with 20% mana bonus a costumed Rigard can still fully charge up with only 3 tiles after Telluria fires (provided 6 purple matches were made beforehand), providing a huge advantage in gameplay. The same applies for any of the costumed heroes who have average mana (like Boldtusk, Kiril, Tiburtus, etc.)

Relevant Values for calculations

Click Here for Details

Here are some popular mana alterations (MA) which we frequently encounter in the game:

Ariel, Khagan, Sir Lancelot, Brynhild: MA = 24%
Spirit Links: MA = 4% (undispellable, but stacks with other mana buffs/debuffs)
Telluria: MA = -24%
Alasie: MA = -24% (undispellable)
Little John, Mist: MA = -64%
Sorcerer delay: MA = -50%

NOTE: Unless they are undispellable, mana buffs and debuffs will usually overwrite each other. For example, Telluria’s mana debuff can be overwritten with Ariel’s mana buff. But Alasie’s mana debuff cannot be overwritten by Ariel.

For full list on different mana buffs/debuffs check this thread

Here are some relevant mana values for calculations taken from this thread:

Mana Troops - each color has a 4* mana troop. They all have the same stats at the same level.

Level 1-4 = 5% bonus
Level 5-10 = 7% bonus
Level 11-16 = 9% bonus
Level 17-22 = 11% bonus
Level 23-28 = 13% bonus
Level 29-30 = 15% bonus

Hero Class - each hero class has a mana bonus at a certain level (indicated below).

Barbarian 19 - 2% bonus
Cleric 19 - 2% bonus
Druid 20 - 4% bonus
Fighter 19 - 2% bonus
Monk 20 - 4% bonus
Paladin 19 - 2% bonus
Ranger 8 - 2% bonus
Rogue 8 - 2% bonus
Sorcerer 20 - 4% bonus
Wizard 20 - 2% bonus

For mana boosts from family bonuses, check out this thread

Special cases

There are certain special cases which can add or subtract some mana units (MS) from the total mana generated on a per turn basis, and should be taken into account as and when the situation arises. Check out this amazing thread for more details. Under most commonly encountered circumstances we can simply ignore MS.

Click Here for Details on certain Special Cases

Mana Cut:

Many heroes like Guinevere, Leonidas, Chao, LiXiu etc, can cut a certain percentage of mana from a hero. This percentage is based on each heroes max tank capacity and hence can be calculated based on that. For example, Guinever cuts 20% mana from everyone. Hence, for average heroes that translates to 200 mana units (MS = -200), for a fast hero it will be 160 mana units (MS = -160), and so on and so forth. The effect is immediate and is independent of any mana buffs/debuffs.

Mana Block:

Hel and Proteus can block mana generation completely and during those turns absolutely no mana is generated at all.

Inari minions:

Inari minions generate 7% mana for the owner at the end of each turn. This, I am assuming is also based on the total mana capacity, so an average mana hero will generate 70 mana units after each turn (MS = 70 per turn), a fast hero will generate 56 mana units after each turn (MS = 56 per turn), and so on and so forth, but we need to investigate this further. Maybe @nitrogenbubble can help. :slight_smile:

Mana regeneration:

Alberich gives a “moderate” amount of mana regeneration at the end of each turn and totally negelects any other mana buffs/debuffs, including Hel and Proteus. He generates 0.8 tiles worth of mana after each turn, which in our context translates to 80 mana units. That means when Alby effect is active, each hero in your team (irrespective of mana speed) gains about 80 mana units at the end of each turn, no matter what (MS = 80 per turn). Similarly, Misandra gives a “small” amount of mana regeneration after each turn. According to @Damirius’s theory it means 0.5 tiles worth of mana, which in our context would mean 50 mana units (MS = 50per turn).

Onatel:

Onatel steals the amount of mana generated by a certain amount each of the 4 turns. The amount she steals in the consecutive turns are 25%, 50%, 75% and 100% respectively. For example, if you have a regular Rigard with no mana bonus, then a match-3 purple will give him 300 mana units. But under Onatel’s effect, if you keep making 4 consecutive match-3 purples in each turn then the amount of mana gained by Rigard in each of those turns will be 225, 150, 75 and 0, respectively.

Conclusion

With the formula provided in this thread, we can calculate the number of tiles required for any given hero under any conditions of mana buff/debuff as long as we take care in choosing the correct values of all the involved parameters. Hopefully, this will give everyone an idea of how mana buffs/debuffs work, and hopefully help you in choosing the ideal troop levels or other mana bonuses when constructing an effective attack team, especially against Telluria.

Please let me know your suggestions or comments on how to improve this topic.

Thank You. :slight_smile:

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A ‘Player Guide’, perhaps masterful @ThePirateKing?

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Sure. I didn’t know which category to post this under. Feel free to move it accordingly. :slight_smile:

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Terrific and a comprehensive analysis :star2::+1:.
Thanks for sharing your expertise and bookmarked for future reference :star_struck:.

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Forum bookmarked :heavy_heart_exclamation:

Notes

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At first I was really wondering what the hell you were talking about. Who can do those type of calculation during a fight? Then I caught up. I did not have the time to read all but just from what I picked up on worthy of book mark. Great stuff.

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Thank you. And yes, this is definitely not for doing during a fight, but more for preparing for a fight or just understanding how mana buffs/debuffs effect your heroes in general. :slight_smile:

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I find it as a guide rather than a solution in fact it is very wrong not only in the calculations but also in saying that this is easy
First of all, you cannot take a single mana value of tokens from the board since there are 4 (ATTACK: tokens hit hero, tokens go free- DEFENSE: tokens hit hero, tokens go long)
And only with this I show you that the formula does not work because it only takes one value and does not explain what it is.
now when saying to add the positive and negative buffers is another
error since some powers are replaced, the effects are not added and subtracted, but according to the order that they apply, the last one always prevails.
Now this doesn’t fit the explanation either

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Can you be more specific please?

If you are suggesting you have a more thorough understanding / explanation of mana generation under buffs/debuffs, please share more. I will be lurking with interest.

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Thank you for commenting. First of all in the title it is written that this guide is for offense only, so your latter two cases for defense are not valid here. Secondly, in offense, when you ghost a tile they just count as two tiles. So if one tiles fills 100 mana units, a ghosted tile will 200 mana units. So the formula is still valid, one just needs to count the tiles right. But it’s a good point. I did not mention it anywhere in the post because I assumed everyone knew that, so will add it later.

If you find the calculations to be wrong, please show me some proof. All the examples have been tested in the game and found to be working exactly as predicted, so if you have some alternate view, please let me know.

Can you show me an example where I added the buffs and debuffs together. It is well known that positive buffs will usually replaces negative buffs, and vice versa. So that is why I only consider one parameter MA, which is positive if it is a buff and negative when there is a debuff. Inherent mana boosts can never be overwritten, so they will always be present.

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I explained it a little but I will explain it again
We first have to consider 4 factors in the hero’s mana load.
ATTACK
Tokens that hit a Hero = x amount
Free tokens that don’t hit a Hero = x amount
DEFENDING
Tokens that hit a Hero = x amount
Free tokens that don’t hit a Hero = x amount

the values ​​above are those of tokens in attack that hit a hero the rest can be easily removed by counting the free tokens and in case of defense in assault seeing how many tokens that hit a hero load it

now there is the simplest part to get calculations in percentage
apply rule of 3 simple

if A is 100%
B is X%

multiply crossed and divide by the same line
we want to clear B = A * X / 100
we want to clear X = B * 100 / A

if we have a fast mana hero (8 tiles from the board hitting the hero in attack)
and we add 20% of let’s say a troop increase then

A = 8 100%
B 20% = we clear b the result = 1.6 that we subtract from 8 and we have 7.4 the game keep in mind that the game rounds the values ​​and now instead of needing to hit the hero directly with 8 tiles we are going to need 7.4
it’s that simple.
same calculation if we reduce or increase the mana X quantity

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Great and valuable Guide :+1:
A simple way to understand how mana works. Bookmarked.

PS: what I really need is mana troop yellow, where are you? :cry:

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regarding the defensive part, sorry, I didn’t see that, you’re right
Now I tell you that the ghost token charge is not double that you can see
I thank you for the response and the great acceptance of the message without feeling an attack or offended things that happen.
First of all I speak Spanish and I go through google translator is not good but it is what I have.
I know that part of the message and the good vibes that I try to put is lost or not transmitted.
I think that the debates are good to motivate to advance and exchange information but always in a polite way, so thanks for reading my answers.

You wrote me that the data was verified and I still do not see a material (photos, video) that demonstrates or supports the theory.
in mana super fast the real values of the tiles on the board are 7 hitting enemies and 4 ghosts

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For me it’s: Purple mana troop, where are you? 18 months of gameplay and I still don’t have it :rofl:

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Ofcourse. I never judge anyone’s messages. I know that emotions can sometimes get lost in translation but ideas don’t. In fact, with your constructive criticism, I have added a section on “Ghosting Tiles” in the article. Let me know if it works.

Unfortunately, I and several other beta testers use our beta accounts to test these scenarios as we can do muiltiple runs (infinite raid energy is awesome), so we can’t share the videos or screenshots from beta accounts. But, most of these are very common scenarios, so your are welcome to test them out when you raid and let me know if you find any anamolies. In my formula the numbers P and Q, shows just the number of tiles required for a hero to charge. For example, if we take a very fast hero (R = 6.5) you mentioned (without any mana boost), from Eq. (2) in my post, we have P x 100 = 650, or P = 6.5 ~ 7. So 7 tiles are required for very fast hero to fully charge. Now, how someone achieves these 7 tiles is totally up to them. Here are a few options: a) 3x match-3 (9 tiles), b) 1x match-3 + 1x match-4 (7 tiles), c) 2x match-4 (8 tiles), d) 1x ghosted match-3+1x match-3 (9 tiles), e) 1 ghosted match-4 (8 tiles), f) 1x normal match-3 + 1x partial match-3 where 2 tiles hits a hero and 1 ghosts (7 tiles), and so on and so forth. So my calculations still hold. Hope this helps. Also, in example 2b, I have added the option of ghosting tiles too for Lianna. :slight_smile:

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Thank you for taking the time to lay all this out clearly!

I would have said simply, but my definition of simple, doesn’t cover mana generation equations :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I’ve always been in awe of the analytical minds that manage to describe a complex game in bite sized chucks for those whose brains operate in a more rng manner :kissing_heart:

Really appreciate the time and effort that went into this. Thanks again!

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Thank you so much. All the credit goes to all the brilliant players who figured out all the actual details regarding mana generation, way before I started playing this game. I just wanted to present it all under a single framework. :slight_smile:

PS: Btw, I have now removed the word “simple” when describing the formula. because I just realized that “simple” is not the right word to describe such a framework. :rofl:

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Your formula has mana troop bonus being additive with new mana % effects (e.g. if Telly fires you would add her negative mana effect to the bonus from troop then multiply this sum by mana that would have been gained from tiles). Are you sure this is correct? All other troop bonuses seem to be applied before the match and become innate to that hero (the reason +atk from a troop raises DoT, but +atk applied during the match does not affect DoT, for example) and should theoretically be multiplicative, not additive to mana gain changes applied in-match.

To clarify, if an average speed hero gains 10% mana per tile and is wearing a troop with 10% mana gain (I know, but humor me for the sake of round numbers), the mana gained per tile would be 11%. If multiplicative as I assume it to be, mana gain per tile under a Telly gimp is 11 x 0.66 = 7.26% mana per tile. If additive, gain per tile is 10 x (1.1 - 0.34)= 7.6% mana per tile. Not massive difference, but does alter a few breakpoints.

I’ve been having a tough time testing the theory as the only differences in tile breakpoints seem to occur with troops at a higher level than I have access to to test.

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Just an observation here, Alby boost actually respects mana speed i.e when active boosts 7% to slow mana, 8% to average, 10% to fast mana and 12% to very fast.

Brilliant formulae lay out :+1:t3:

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This is a very good question. Even I had this same thought when coming up with the formula, So I had to test it out. I took a costumed Rigard (5% mana bonus) and a level 1 mana troop (5%) thus giving us a total of 10% mana boost (MB = 10%). I ran numerous simulations and one particular case helped answer this question.

I made a purple dragon bomb and then burst that bomb, thus giving us a total of 5 purple tiles. Now after Telluria fired I immediately made 2 x purple 3-matches (total of 6 tiles) which charged up Rigard fully. Now this was very interesting to me. Because depending on which method we use - additive or multiplicative - the result would have been different.

From the formula given in the post the total mana generated in this scenario would be:

5 x (110) + 6 x (110 - 34) = 1006 ( just enough to fill Rigard’s 1000 capacity mana tank)

But, if we consider Telluria’s effect to be multiplicative it would have been:

5 x (110) + 6 x (110) x 0.66 = 985.6 (just shy of filling Rigard’s 1000 capacity mana tank)

So, from there I concluded that SG applies the mana debuffs on the bass value and not the modified boosted value. Hope this helps. :slight_smile:

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