Her attack stat is high so Iād just go that route, especially since sheāll almost certainly be on your titan team. I know Scarecrow has also said offensive Fighters should pour on attack so itās more devastating if they revive and fire.
That said, I didnāt fully spec her out and would do that before I decided. My guess is itāll be like Jackal; even going full defense / hp it was obvious heās be upgraded, at best, from very fragile to regular fragile. So I felt going full attack and hoping he survives through Evade a bit longer was the best course. Iād guess Elena could maybe go from fragile to whatever is slightly better than fragile but still well shy of robust. Attack, let the revive work from time to time.
This surprises me and I remember you saying the same thing in your Embleming Heroes guide (which I think is excellent, btw). So you consider him more towards the sniper class? Do you think of Frida the same way?
If you look at paladin grid youāll see the player is forced to go mainly def path. And Richard has already a tone of def. There is no point in let him be as weak as Justice, for example (for me, Justice is a joke; to little damage and any cleanser has the time to cleanse). Besides, like I also said in that thread, Richard is a hitter, not a support hero. It seems obviously for heroes like him and Frida to choose any atk node available. When I attack, Richard is one of my best heroes. I rely more on him, than Magni, who dies easily. And the best use for Richard is side finisher (hitting the wing with an already harmed flank, wipes both heroes, so strong his damage becomes after his atk stat is 700+). And if they somehow survive, theyāre useless being with attack down and low HP. Support heroes like Ares and Aegir have to go only def/HP path, but not the A3E and splash hitters. You know, the best defense is the attack
P.S. At last 5* rush attack tournament, my alt (Richard +11) finished undefeatedā¦
Yeah I use Richard as tank, and I started off on strictly DEF route but now Iām more tempted to switch to attack. My thinking was originally that the protect talent adds a multiplier for DEF, so it would be crazy to not take advantage. But heās so tanky now it just feels like diminishing returns.
As an aside, seems like people always talk about ATK or DEF nodes as a binary choice. I think it sometimes is, but shouldnāt certain heroes be balanced? For example, Iāve picked from both sides for Athena because her primary role is debuffer, but sheās also a hitter.
I agree that attack path with Richard is better too.
He already has the same defense stat as Kunchen before emblems, but Richardās skill is more threatening when it heavily damages his target ā leaving it in range of death by slash attack when fighting him on defense.
This is mostly thanks to his already high % damage from his skill. Pumping his attack will make that high % much more notable, and he still picks up a decent amount of defense anyways.
EDIT: although Thorne is a less desirable tank choice, if you have no one better for a blue tank, heāll be serviceable with emblems ā so long as he also goes the attack path (for the same reasons as Richard)
Iāve been wondering about this. I envisioned Thorne as my tank not so long ago, but it didnāt work that well. My paladin emblems are going to Gunnar right now (still on my paladin trial team) after taking Sonya to +20, but if I ever get around to embleming Thorne, my thought was to go attack. After all, if his special is only damage, it had better be A LOT of damage! Thanks for confirming my thoughts.
Yeah Horg isnāt too good these days. Heās slow mana, and even if he does go off itās not a big deal really. Just hold BTās special and itās like Horghallās special never happened.
Cāmon - you know I looked. Itās just that I disagree with you.
Forced Nodes
Looking at the Paladin grid through node 18 (since thatās a realistic stopping point for most / all heroes), offensive upgrades are forced three times:
Fork 2/3: attack either direction
Node 10: attack, no option
Fork 16/17: attack either direction
Thatās tied for first in most attack nodes forced among all the classes (with 4-6 others classes, depending on how you want to treat Ranger and Rogueās mana boost at node 8).
However, you are also forced to go defense twice, which is more than the average of 1.4.
Choice Nodes
What I could agree with is that a maximally offensive Paladin cannot get as much as offensive as other classes. You only have the choice / are forced to go offense 6 times, which is below average. The average is 6.4-6.4, again depending on how you want to classify node 8 for Rangers and Rogues.
Paladins have an equal number of offensive options / forces as Druids, Fighter, and Monks (and one more than Cleric and Sorcerer).
I have him at the same emblem level, and I just canāt stay in diamond, only get there with revenges, which is OK, at least I can collect the food and iron from the chest.
Heās got the highest base defence stats of the Vanilla Heroes
His special is an attack Debuff with DoA making him mighty annoying.
This special is Average Speed as opposed to Slow which is the other 5* DoA heroes which interfere with attacks (See Horghall, Quintus Costume, Justice etcā¦)
He is Paladin Class which is naturally increases tankiness
Absolutely! For ease and to save time Iām going to only pull from ~2/3rds of the data I have, but itāll give us a reasonable idea of a few reasonable comps. N.B. there are many tanks for whom I clearly have too small a sample, including Black Knight, Hel, and Yunan. If I donāt list someone you expect to see here, itās more likely theyāre in that category than that they posted a lower win rate. Also, Iām not posting all non-vanillas, just a few I thought would be interesting / that people would have a lot of experience with (since those are useful as comparisons).
I have two Seshat, so while I think Guinevere is a better tank than Onatel, sheās sometimes easier for me to counter.
Very unimpressive from Aegir, to come in below so many vanilla tanks.
Also underwhelming: Ares and Santa Claus. Given how much I clearly struggle with red tanks (see Elena, Azlar, GM, Anzogh), for them to do so poorly is really damning.
Interesting data, though I think the composition of your team really skews some of the results (like the mentioned Aegir). Similarly, it is tough comparing results against Boril and say Richard, because it is likely that the surrounding team with a 5* tank is likely stronger than surrounding a 4* tank (i.e. probability that your tank is your weak/ strong spot vs. it being your average hero).
From that point of view, some of the classic 4* tanks are probably even slightly better than your data may suggest. Elena seems to be the biggest surprise for me (since people trash her so much), but again, it could be due to your selection of offensive heroes, or some people heavily embleming her fopr the titan tile damage and having all of the other toys around her, which is causing you the trouble. (trouble in parentheses, you still have a huge win rate)
The biggest tank gamechanger for me, will be when we get a 5* Boldtusk (fighter healer buffer). that will be extremely annoying with multiple revivesā¦
Those are all great points! I have tracked team power, but not emblems on individual heroes (nor troops). Ultimately, this project is still in a pretty early stage in which data gathering has been my emphasis. I have some preliminary ideas about trying to ānormalizeā the data by trying to account for team power (as a proxy for emblems, support, and team synergy), but havenāt yet made an attempt.
I agree with you that some comparisons are easier than others. I look at this and am impressed by Boril, in comparison to Aegir since I know I attack them with similar teams. But I agree that Boril to Richard is less useful; Isarnia is probably a better comp for him.
This is Ć propos of nothing being discussed, but Iām also noticing that I often struggle with riposters. Elena, Boril, and even Obakan can all be problematic for me. Itās something Iāve made a mental note of to maybe look into more. While dispellers are the obvious first thing to assess I actually suspect that in those fights I am not bringing enough healing.
Are you stacking heavily? In such a case an unlucky combo over a riposter can wipe your team and cause a loss even if you should dominate a team. One out of 10-20 fights is areasonable chance for that to occur?
