Damage Calculation

how much health did GM have?

close to 100%

Of course, I heard about these mythical + 20% to defense, but it turns out that the defense team also has a higher attack. then the attackers are half as weak?)


Is the formule in post 1 is still right ? Date of the post is 03/2018.
I’m trying to make sort of a French Wiki
(And i’m very interrested by all calculation things in the game)

Yup, still matches up :slight_smile:

Defending team gets ~1.2 multipler for both attack & defence :slight_smile:

To compensate for all the advantages that the Attacking Team has & for how stupid the AI is comparatively.

1 Like

The biggest problem with defining θ, there is a high likelihood of an attack stat soft cap common to grindy MMOs. Unlike other MMOs, Empires does not tell us the damage range. So a soft cap might be complicating our data set.

(Has SG 100% nerfed color stacking?)

([Research] Does Color Stacking have a soft cap? or Attack stat research)

(Damage Calculation)


I believe it likely you’re on the true path here. Have you gotten any closer to a conclusion on this point?

18 mos. playing and reading this thread I have come to the inescapable and logical conclusion that “Does x % damage” and “gets plus x% attack” are fundamentally DIFFERENT things and are likely accounted for inherently different.

Example, “does X % damage” would be applied to a calculation that RESULTS in a “base damage”, modifying it by the stated amount. The logical operation would be 1) Calc a “base damage”; 2) Apply damage (skill) modifier to achieve a “Final Damage”.

Expressed another way, Kage skill will ALWAYS increase the total damage yield, whatever it is, by the applicable % 450/225.

BT skill will increase the attack stat in the damage formula, whatever it really is lol, but may not yield an actual increase in calculated damage because it’s itself only a “factor” in the entire math operation.

The inherent difference being that damage % skill acts on the “result” of the base damage calc to yield a final number.

Forget the “Math” for a minute folks but follow the logic :grin: Admittedly, it’s been 20 years since I’ve had to “Math” professionally, but I been using logic my entire life. Idk :thinking:

unless there is a cap on that Att/Def ratio, something really fishy is going on.
my red raid stack includes BT and Santa (and Marjana). I often fire Marjana first, and then if lucky and charged Santa by the end of the battle, fire Marjana with BT’s special and enemy under Santa’s sack.
that should be:
without specials, she hits for 700-800, with specials she rarely reaches 1k damage, which is nothing compared to 3.7 increase. it is not even 2.64 before exponentiation.

And the person I think is very complicated to explain the damage, I would like to know in the formula that you ask where it was that you acquired each data, especially the 1.35 where this number comes from or if it is something randomly put that helps the formula to fit .
Damage ≈ 100 x (θ x Att / Def) ^ 1.35 I would like a more explained breakdown of each bone part:
damage I understand that part
100 I understand it refers to 100% damage
0 why?
att / def why?
1.35? where does this number come from

I must also say that despite the predictions, the main topic is not being taken, which is not one but several.

  • how can you calculate the board and which chips will come out
  • the mana of a hero was not taken into account
    How can we calculate damage to the enemy if in many cases we do not know the value of their defense?
    I would like to know a little more about this, thank you very much.
    I think it’s great that more people get involved in answering these questions that some of us have been unable to sleep for months, trying to figure out this amazing game.
    greetings from argentina
    Ratabboy red de alianzas

I know, this thread is referenced a lot for damage calculation… Super useful to so many players indeed :slight_smile:

Hope one finds following to be also useful -

1 Like

Yes, only taking tile into account

So was doing some calculations. And when it comes to emblems it seems that 18 defense just never mitigates enough damage to warrant 36 hp.

Am I going wrong somewhere?
Even a lianna shot on a -44% down MN
4x 18 def, shot deals 1092 dmg. MN keeps 369HP
4x 36 hp, shot deals 1224 dmg. MN keeps 381HP


But +18 Defense is constant, +36 HP requires healer to restore after damage is taken.

Mainly +18 Defense is helpful for attacks mitigated by defense stat.

While +36 HP helps against counterattack damage, and damage over time, both of which bypass defense stat.

See also

(General game questions for more experienced players)

( Hero durability - statistics )

(🍚 Talents: defense points or health points?)

which begs the question: how often is the migitation more important than HP?

it would take approx 6 auto attacks from lianna onto MN to chip away more than 36 HP difference.
Maybe we’ve been looking at this a bit wrong?
6 auto attack is like 12-18 turns I think and I’m sure most battles don’t last that long. And if they do, the extra difference rarely matters
with a 0,34% defense down the auto attacks are 4, still 8 to 12 turns

Someone once pointed me towards a 0,68% ideal defense ratio, but if a 55% ratio already makes the difference in damage neglible for the duration of the fight, maybe HP > DEF because of the small timeframe damage is dealt in

Season 1 Bosses, and Season 1 titans are almost all defense debuff, and attack all special skills.

Season 2 Bosses, Season 2 titans, and Rare titans, it can be better to go with HP.

Really depends on situation.

I would love to try creative emblem paths, especially with the current implementation of costumes.

([Suggestion] Same hero, free, class node reconfigure or some fun with class nodes)

yeah but pve map progress is kinda meh anyway when it comes to trying to minmax this… only s3 hard lvls hit pretty hard.

Titans… again, short battles. And they usually 1shot or 2shot heroes anyway…

I’ve seen this calculations 4 months ago and could not understand what was happening. Now I’ve realised that you have calculated the effects of buffs separately and worked out the final percentage that will be applied to the final damage calculated without buffs.

Closure feels good

1 Like

You’ve multiplied by 415% instead of 365%

Kunchen as a tank always drop down theta close to 0.65

Note that Kunchen and Telluria do not obey maths and physics in general. They are Gods.

Cookie Settings