Where to find stats about stacking

We have discussions on tiles… i like to know what starting points are for 1 till 5 blue… anyone knows where to find this basic info?

And as I understood basic stays basic even if all heroes are dead but 1.

Someone knows where to find? @Kerridoc @zephyr1 @Garanwyn

I’m not 100% sure what you’re asking. Can you explain a bit more?

The tile damage doesn’t decrease if offense heroes die, if that’s what you’re asking. Their attack stat still adds into the damage for tiles.

There’s no “default” damage for a tile. So the single blue tile damage for 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 blue heroes will depend on what their attack stats sum to.

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How do I calculate the single tile worth from a titan and how do they ad. As I understand if a hero gives 1 point then 4 heroes don’t give 4 points total but more than that. Somewhere here there was a table that gave how to calculate with 1 to 4 heroes.

Fi 1x Frida gives 1 point per tile and 4x Frida give much more than 4.

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  1. Sum all the attack stats of heroes in a color, as modified by buffs and troops
  2. Divide the sum by the defense stat of the target, as modified by buffs and troops
  3. Raise that quotient to the 1.35 power
  4. Multiply by 33

That’s the average tile damage for the stack. Caveat: if the attack/defense ratio gets too high, the 1.35 is down-tweaked. We haven’t figured out how exactly. There’s also a fairly large random element thrown in, so a particular hit can be much higher or lower than average.

Effects like blind are an all-ot-nothing impact on a tile. Each tile is assigned to a hero in the stack, and if that hero has a status effect like Blind active, then the entire tile might miss.

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Oof. Titans are rough, because we don’t know their defense values. But you can do the percent increase.

If Attack A + Attack B = 230% * Attack A, then the tile damage of the two heroes together will be 230%^1.35 = 308% of the tile damage of just the first hero.

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The question is as follows… with 4 blue heroes alive tiles are 3600 on weak spot. Later on with 2 dead he goes to 1500. And it goes down till 900… editunderstood… lol

Atk stat of dead heroes still counts for damage, but buffs like the +185% atk of Wu is no longer applied to dead heroes, so damage goes down, because only the base atk stat of the dead heroes goes to the calculation.

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That sounds interesting. Can you explain a little more?

If red has been stacked with 2 heroes, lets say Azlar and Marjana, Azlar has a -50% accuracy debuff while Marjana has not, and a match of 3 tiles is fired. What will be the chance of that match to hit an opponent?

  1. Each of the three tiles has a equal chance of being assigned to Marjana or to Azlar. (You can see which tile belongs to whom if you’ve got different troop types under each hero.) So for a given tile, there’s a 50% chance it will be assigned to Azlar.
  2. Each Azlar tile has a 50% chance of missing, per the accuracy debuff.
  3. So, before the assignment at step 1 or the outcome of step 2 is known, each tile has a 25% chance of missing.
  4. The odds of all three of a match-3 missing are then 0.50^3 = 12.5%

This approach isn’t the only way it might have been coded. Each tile code be treated as a composite of each stacked hero. Under this approach, Marjana’s contribution to damage would never miss, and Azlar’s contribution would have a 50% chance of missing. The results are similar–there’s an expected reduction of 25% (*) of damage either way. But in this alternative approach, you would only get an outright miss if all stacked heroes had a debuff on. The approach SGG took has the same expected damage but a higher variance.

*) I’m being a little loose with the math here. Azlar has a higher attack stat than Marjana, so the expected damage isn’t exactly the same in the two approaches unless you also make the assumption that there’s a random chance that either Azlar or Marjana could be blinded.

Also note that this same logic applies to good things, like critical bonuses. If one hero in the stack has a crit troop and the others have mana troops, only the tiles assigned to the crit-troop hero will have a chance of generating a critical. If two heroes have crit troops with of different levels, only the critical % of the matching hero matters. By contrast, an attack buff on only a few heroes (such as Lancelot or Ares creates) will improve the tile damage on every tile of that color.

  • Key take-away: Multiple mana troops in a stack have an additive effect, while multiple critical troops do not. Therefore, the ideal is to have at most one crit troop in a stack.
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You had me right with you the whole way until this part.

For tile damage and slash attacks, Crit Troops are better than Mana in terms of Total Damage Output.


To show this, I crunched a bunch of numbers, and got help from @Garanwyn to check my assumptions, course correct my approach, and put together a formula that we turned into a spreadsheet to generate damage calculations with different troop combinations for demonstration purposes.


Assumptions
Average Attack 691 Based on averaging all 4* and 5* heroes
Average Defense 679 Based on averaging all 4* and 5* heroes
Crit % 0.15 Based on a Level 30 Crit Troop
Mana Attack Buff 1.26 Based on a Level 30 Mana Troop
Crit Attack Buff 1.2 Based on a Level 30 Crit Troop

To make the calculations possible to compare linearly, we’ve chosen to use average hero attack and defense stats, and stats from Level 30 Troops.

We built the spreadsheet to allow for varying these numbers, so it’s possible to compare other combinations, but this will show the comparative effect of Mana vs. Crit Troops in general.

Damage Calculation Formula

This is adapted from Damage Calculation to address varying numbers of Crit and Mana Troops.

Credit to @Garanwyn for this approach, which simplifies and generalizes my initial approach.

[33.33*(1- (crit %)*(# crit)/(# total)) + 66.67*((crit %)*(# crit)/(# total))] * sum^1.35

Calculations

1 Stack

# Crit # Mana # Total Sum Attack Attack / Defense Damage % Increase
0 1 1 691 1.0177 46.62
1 0 1 691 1.0177 50.20 7.67%

2 Stack

# Crit # Mana # Total Sum Attack Attack / Defense Damage % Increase
0 2 2 1382 2.0353 118.85
1 1 2 1382 2.0353 123.68 4.06%
2 0 2 1382 2.0353 127.97 7.67%

3 Stack

# Crit # Mana # Total Sum Attack Attack / Defense Damage % Increase
0 3 3 2073 3.0530 205.46
1 2 3 2073 3.0530 211.12 2.76%
2 1 3 2073 3.0530 216.38 5.31%
3 0 3 2073 3.0530 221.22 7.67%

4 Stack

# Crit # Mana # Total Sum Attack Attack / Defense Damage % Increase
0 4 4 2764 4.0707 302.96
1 3 4 2764 4.0707 309.29 2.09%
2 2 4 2764 4.0707 315.27 4.06%
3 1 4 2764 4.0707 320.91 5.92%
4 0 4 2764 4.0707 326.21 7.67%

5 Stack

# Crit # Mana # Total Sum Attack Attack / Defense Damage % Increase
0 5 5 3455 5.0884 409.46
1 4 5 3455 5.0884 416.34 1.68%
2 3 5 3455 5.0884 422.92 3.29%
3 2 5 3455 5.0884 429.20 4.82%
4 1 5 3455 5.0884 435.19 6.28%
5 0 5 3455 5.0884 440.89 7.67%

Takeaway

First, a reminder that this is talking about color stacking — it’s not taking into account Special Skill Damage. We’re looking at Tile Damage.

In the simplest case of one Mana vs. one Crit Troop, the Crit Troop will do more damage on average, because the Crit % increase is more than sufficient to overcome the Mana Troop’s higher attack boost.

As you look at each of the subsequent tables, you can see that adding more Crit Troops ALWAYS increases the average damage for a tile in all cases.

For equal-stat heroes and troops, tile damage is maximized by having as many Crit Troops and as few Mana Troops in a stack as possible.


Now obviously real-world complexities are going to make it impossible to have that as a hard-and-fast rule — we could likely find combinations of hero stats and troop levels where that balance would be shifted. If a player has a single Level 30 Mana Troop and 5 Level 1 Crit Troops to choose from, obviously the stat differences are going to make the Mana Troop advantageous in the stack.


But this does point toward Crit Troops as a priority for tile damage.

For contexts where tile damage rules — like Titans — Crit Troops are going to be a better investment.

Likewise, for players who like to heavily utilize tile damage in their play style on Offense, Crit Troops make more sense.

But if your heroes have sexy high-damage Special Skills — which can’t Crit — then the balancing act could change.


So, the takeway: Crit Troops are better for tile damage and stacking, but the answer to which is better for a particular player is the same as usual:

It depends, can I see your roster? :slight_smile:

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As a bonus, crit is not subject to the attack stat soft cap, so this should lead to higher average tile damage.

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Good analyses, @zephyr1. I get lazy typing on my ipad from my summer cottage instead of on my computer where I can set up the spreadsheets.

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I dont understand where this 33 is coming from and what means “Raise that quotient to the 1.35 power”

@zephyr1: Damage ≈ 100 x ( θ x Att / Def ) ^ 1.35
That formula what means “^1.35” and whats that θ

I know the original post but i didnt understand i think

It’s because the formula is based on 100x, and:


It means “raised to the power of 1.35”


It’s a random variable, which is why the actual damage amount will vary within a range higher or lower than the base formula:

Well i think my english is too bad :frowning:

Is this meant in a math way like 2^2 =4 Or another thing?

Sorry

Yes, exactly, you’ve got it. :slightly_smiling_face:

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