# New Mana Troops goals after +20 Class Talents?

How is the mana troop situation after the introduction of class talents, with the +2% and +4% mana nodes?

How will those affect the number of tiles needed for very fast, fast, average, slow and very slow heroes to charge?

With maxed mana troops the talent bonus doesnâ€™t help at all. Only way might be with troops+talent+sakura family.

Pretty easy to figure out, just do the mathâ€¦ divide the number of tiles to fill mana by 1+ total mana percentage. SG does not truncate, it is always rounded up.

For example an average mana hero take 10 tiles with no mana boost. We know itâ€™s a level 23 mana troop because it gives a 13% boost. So 10 Ă· 1.13 = 8.85, or 9 tiles. So if you have the 2% mana boost from the class you will only need an 11% mana troop which can be had at troop level 17.

Now you know how to do the calculations and can figure out the rest

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Dam, the 4% bonus + maxed mana troops only takes slow heroes down to 10.084 tiles. So close yet 1% so far

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Do you get 4% in the tree? I was looking at it again and I could only find 2%â€¦ please correct me if Iâ€™m wrong.

I got the 4% figure from reading other memberâ€™s discussions like this one

Bottom of Sorcerer, Monk and Druid is 4%

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I think the math above isnâ€™t really right. Using that formula, 10 / 1.12 = 8.92, which would be 12% not 13. But thatâ€™s beside the point - if 10 tiles is the charge speed, and you want to find out when 9 tiles charge to 10, then itâ€™s (9 * (1 + x)) = 10 => 10 / 9 = 1 + x => 1.11111 - 1 = x = .11111 Round up to make 12%

You shouldnâ€™t use 10 when youâ€™re looking for 9â€¦

(T - 1)(1 + x)=T
X = (T / (T - 1)) - 1 which you then round up.

Except when itâ€™s a half tile for very fast or very slow, then itâ€™s T - 0.5.

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Yeah, 12% would do it, bUT mana troops go from 11 to 13%. The math is right. Youâ€™re doing it the same way, and I actually did it that way in another threadâ€¦ youâ€™re just moving the equation around.

Yeah, the math actually is the same now that I think again. I was being a little pedantic I guess, walking through the problem. Issue I had was I couldnâ€™t find what the mana troops % was for a given level, so all I ever see is what level they matter at, which is less helpful now that weâ€™re adding percentages all over the place.

Thanks

Following question comes to my mindâ€¦

Do we know at wich point the talent bonus is added?

Before,after or at the same Time as troops?

Could it be that with talents you get at 104% and then add the troops Bonus?

Same with attack and defense.

Itâ€™s additive, not multiplicative. So just throw it in the basket with the other mana boosters and add them all up.

Also for mana troops:

Level 1 = 5%
Level 5 = 7%
Level 11 = 9%
Level 17 = 11%
Level 23 = 13%
Level 29 = 15%

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Thought Iâ€™d do the math and try to summarize the effects of combining troops and class bonuses. The brief summary is as someone said earlier, if you have maxed mana troops class bonuses generally donâ€™t make a difference. However, class bonuses do lower the troop level required to hit certain tile # thresholds. Example being a Ranger/Rogue like Athena/Domitia with average mana speed. Instead of requiring level 23 mana troops to require 9 tiles to charge, they only require their class level 8 mana bonus plus level 17 mana troops.

So much of this is situational, but if you get a class bonus it could definitely lower the troop level you need to drop the number of tiles needed to charge a special.

The dumb part is most of the mana bonuses donâ€™t come until level 19/20. So maybe in a year this will become useful?

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Very nice work! Thanks for this.

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I see Monks, Sorcerers and Druids all have a mana Bonus in there tech trees â€¦

I saw a few comments on this that itâ€™s possible with the right troops and this mana bonus, to get slow heroâ€™s to average.

Is there more detail on this anywhere?

Like is it possible to get Avg mana to fast?

Etc. Might make spending emblems a lot easier for me.

I think this might be what youâ€™re looking for:

(@Kerridoc @Rook Possible Merge of Topic)

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Merged in, thanks.

And 20.

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Not itâ€™s not possible to get slow to average or average to fast just through the class bonus and mana troops.

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Thanks Lucas, Iâ€™d been reading up on it since I posted â€¦ saw your calculations.

The quick wins look like mana troop lvl 11 for V.Fast (6.5 tiles down to 6) and lvl 17 troops for slow (12 down to 11)

Thereâ€™s big wins on the V.Slow heroâ€™s as well â€¦ but who uses them ?

15% from troops, 4% from the best class talentsâ€¦ is 19%. I think to go from 12 to 10 was 23% and I didnâ€™t check 10 going to 8 because that would take even more. 10 to 9 is really good because itâ€™s 3 normal matchesâ€¦ and often keeps average mana on pace with fast heroes. Thatâ€™s 13% which means you donâ€™t have to take a mana troop to 23, you will get that tile shaved off at mana troop 11 if you have the 4% class bonus. 11 is achievable by anyone. 23 takes a loooong time or money.

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