[History, Theory crafting ] Mistimed Fleeing in Undead Horde versus Mistimed Fleeing in Field Aid OR why automatic minions are less annoying than automatic healing OR losing war points as you watch

[Gryphonknight]

[History, Theory crafting ] Mistimed Fleeing in Undead Horde versus Mistimed Fleeing in Field Aid OR why automatic minions are less annoying than automatic healing OR losing war points as you watch OR visual Pseudo healing versus confusing Laws of War, Resurrection and Healing OR Helping both side OR use for Anti-Minion heroes

Fleeing versus Heal special skill

Fleeing has always been an important war tactic

If a heal special skill is about to heal caster, or other enemies, fleeing will often get you more war points ( see notes )

Example
If all defense heroes have less than 10 HP, and Rigard is about to use his heal special skill, fleeing will usually get you more war points

Laws of War, Temporary Resurrection and Healing

* Healing and resurrection are temporary during the War. If the health of a defending hero has increased when the battle ends, their health will be reset to the value they had when the battle started. (Linky,linky)

Luckily, if you mistime your flee against a healing special skill, Healing and resurrection are temporary during alliance War

Only a whole team revive / whole alliance reset can raise the starting HP of a war defense team hero

Example
If Gravemaker starts a war bout at 10 HP and ends the bout healed to 100% HP, that healing is temporary

The next time that particular war defense is attacked, Gravemaker will start with 10 HP

If that particular war defense is attacked after a whole team revive / whole alliance reset then Gravemaker will start at 100% HP

See also

([Tips] War points, War healing, Fleeing and Temporary war healing)

Timing Multiple heals

One of the major problems with Field Aid was two different healing, Field Aid and any hero healing special skills

You might time your flee based on one, causing you to mistime the other

Losing war points as you watch

Since Field Aid always healed all enemies, even if no healers left alive, you could literally watch as you lost war points

Example
If Gravemaker starts at 100% HP, you get Gravemaker down to 10 HP, then Field Aid heals Gravemaker just before your war attack team dies, then Field Aid literally took war points away from you as you watched

Confused players

To further complicate the issue, if a player did not understand Healing and resurrection are temporary during alliance War they could become confused, angry and sad

If you did not understand Alliance War Temporary Resurrection and Healing, you may think your attack, combined with a mistimed flee, helped the opposing alliance ( see notes for misconception )

This was most problematic with heroes temporarily healed to full health just before the attacker fled/ died

Pseudo HP Boosting / Overhealing

I often refer to minion summoners as minion healers and creating minions as minion healing

But it is really Pseudo HP Boosting / Overhealing

This is why minions work in Bloody Battle, no healing, tournaments

Since minions are Pseudo HP boosting / overhealing, when Undead minions are spawned, your war points stay the same

Example
I got Noor down to 128 HP, 2x Noor minions, and 1x Undead minions

While Noor had higher effective HP due to the minions ( Pseudo HP boosting / overhealing ), Noor’s actual HP was 128 HP so I did not lose war points when the Undead minions ( and Noor minions ) spawned

Tip: Often, many minion summoners are nerfed by Undead Horde since Undead minions bump better minions out once all three minion slots are full and Attackers are likely to prioritize Anti-Minion heroes during Undead Horde

Visible mechanic

Since war defense teams always start with empty minion slots, if you mistime your flee, the next time someone attacks that particular war defense team, the defense will visibly have lost the minions from the ending previous war bout

Example
I got Noor down to 128 HP, 2x Noor minions, and 1x Undead minions

Next time that defense was attacked, Noor started with 128 HP, zero Noor minions, and zero Undead minions

Note: This is also true of actual HP boosting / ovehealing

Helping both side

Since Undead minions spawn for both side, they can actually help the attacker

Several times in this recent war, I ended up with huge numbers of Undead minions killing the defense team’s last 1x, or 2x, low HP heroes

Or helping me survive an enemy sniper

Anti-Minion heroes

Undead Horde also provides a reason to level Anti-Minion heroes

Notes

Click for notes

Fleeing

Slightly outdated

@Gryphonknight

==Fleeing==

@hazard

Fleeing
If the battle is lost but you have done damage, pay very close attention to the mana bars of the opposing healers. If they are going to fire off in the next turn, strongly consider fleeing the battle before they can heal their allies. You can come in with another set of heroes and start them at 0 mana.

This is a really good tip now that my alliance if facing less blow outs. More complex now with Field aid (WR) charging along with the war defense team healers.

@Sarah2

So true… You’re firing off specials and need to keep an eye on the field aid bar because all hurt is undone when it fires . Hitting Flee then becomes your best option.

Laws of War, Temporary Resurrection and Healing

Click for notes

@Gryphonknight

@Max_paris

If I may you can actually hurt your alliance if you attack a team that has already been damage and that the team gets healed (either because of healers or because of the heal war special) and some opponent heros finish the battle with more health than when they started.

One of the current Laws of War, heroes starting a battle dead, return to dead after the battle even if revived. Same with heroes HP at the beginning of a battle.

Especially with Field Aid (WR), I have mistimed my Flee and ended up fully healing the enemy, but their HP resets to before battle HP condition.

==Notes==

@Dante2377

Your impression is not correct, what you experienced is indeed behaving as designed: Alberich can resurrect ANY dead heroes, but ONLY the ones that started the attack alive get carried over to the next attack. Any resurrected heroes that started dead and were resurrected don’t carry over and survive into the next attack.

@Coldneel

Better to say - heroes can’t have more hp after the battle than it was at beggining. So dead at beggining with 0 hp will be dead, 250 hero hp at beggining (even if it was healed to full at the battle) will be 250 hp after.

* Healing and resurrection are temporary during the War. If the health of a defending hero has increased when the battle ends, their health will be reset to the value they had when the battle started. (Linky,linky):

Costume Gormek replacing Valeria

Valeria nerfed by meta

Costume, and meta, buffs Gormek

@Gryphonknight

Costume Gormek

( Valeria - 4* Ice/ Blue from Return to Morlovia (Halloween) - #25 by Gryphonknight )

See also

@Gryphonknight

Field Aid vs Undead Hoard

If I Recall Correctly, the biggest insult to all Vampires, but especially buffed Valeria, was removing War Rule Field Aid and replacing it with War Rule Undead Hoard

Most players did not level anti healing heroes ( can you imagine the player rage against regular/ rare Titans that healed?), so many players hated Field Aid

SGG wanted to start a minion Meta even though players originally opposed a Minion Meta. Interestingly SGG gave Mythic Titans a version of minions, which is a version of Titans that heal. But this has less impact since Mythical Titans already have infinite HP

and

(Buff Heal / HP steal with Overheal)

Edit, See also

([Tips] War points, War healing, Fleeing and Temporary war healing)

FIN

[Gryphonknight]

Clarification

Clarifying Pseudo healing since it is actually Pseudo HP boosting/ overhealing

Click for clarification

@Gryphonknight

Pseudo HP Boosting / Overhealing

I often refer to minion summoners as minion healers and creating minions as minion healing

But it is really Pseudo HP Boosting / Overhealing

This is why minions work in Bloody Battle, no healing, tournaments

Since minions are Pseudo HP boosting / overhealing, when Undead minions are spawned, your war points stay the same

Example
I got Noor down to 128 HP, 2x Noor minions, and 1x Undead minions

While Noor had higher effective HP due to the minions ( Pseudo HP boosting / overhealing ), Noor’s actual HP was 128 HP so I did not lose war points when the Undead minions ( and Noor minions ) spawned

Tip: Often, many minion summoners are nerfed by Undead Horde since Undead minions bump better minions out once all three minion slots are full and Attackers are likely to prioritize Anti-Minion heroes during Undead Horde

Visible mechanic

Since war defense teams always start with empty minion slots, if you mistime your flee, the next time someone attacks that particular war defense team, the defense will visibly have lost the minions from the ending previous war bout

Example
I got Noor down to 128 HP, 2x Noor minions, and 1x Undead minions

Next time that defense was attacked, Noor started with 128 HP, zero Noor minions, and zero Undead minions

Note: This is also true of actual HP boosting / ovehealing

FIN