Not sure the hidden mana generation modifier actually applies to %-based mana gain like 1. mana pots or 2. special skills (like the Squid) or 3. from status effect (like Ludwig). As far as I remember, a 60% mana pot doesn’t give 120% worth of mana to a Styx heroes with the first charge already filled.
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Ok, I understand. Maybe, it affect only tile. Another thing that I don’t sure is the regenerate small/moderate mana over turn.
So, the list of test should be
- mana pot
- skill that % increase mana directly (E.g. Xnolphod)
- status effect that % increase mana directly (E.g. Ludwig)
- the regenerate small/moderate mana over turn status effect & boost aether power
@Zack I also not sure. Does small mana over turn really give 0.25 tile worth of mana and moderate mana over turn really give 0.5 tile worth of mana ?
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For the small and moderate amount of mana, it’s inconsistent depending on each effect…
0.25 tiles worth of mana is 25mp.
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@Zack The hidden mana regen buff make me wonder about the other mana regen too.
What about Slayer and Ninja ? Do they also have any hidden mana regen buff ? Especially Ninja, it is weird that Ninja 1st charge in 4.905 tile or 490.5 MP without any hidden mana regen buff ?
Another thing I wonder is the overspill effect (@CrazyChemist3891 Do you like this name ? 
). The question is when does the hidden mana regen buff apply.
Test to conform my hypothesis that the hidden mana regen buff will not apply during the cascade
- For magic heroes with 0% mana regen bonus, Is it true that we can charge that magic hero with 0% mana regen bonus from 0 to 2nd charge in 11 tiles with the overspill effect ?
- For styx heroes with 0% mana regen bonus, Is it true that we can charge that styx hero with 0% mana regen bonus from 0 to 3rd charge in 18 tiles with the overspill effect ?
If my hypothesis is wrong, for magic heroes test, what if we get 5 tile in 1st cascade, 3 tile in 2nd cascade and 3 tile in 3nd cascade. All in 1 turn. The magic heroes will not charge. The problem is that is hard to create the situation .
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Thank you. But which heroes give small amount of mana per turn but isn’t the element link ? As far as I know, only Hotm heroes (like Frost, Devana, Malicna, etc) can give small mana over turn buff ?
I can confirm that as well. Sorry brother let him movement going on right now with the AQ
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Small mana was once 0.5 now is 0.32
Moderate was once 0.8 but is now 0.5
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I mean from this.
If “Small mana was once 0.5 now is 0.32”, why doesn’t @Elioty33 just simply say that ? Why do he have to separate the element link and small mana ? Or the nerf of small mana is after this post.
It was both 50mp but the elemental link got nerfed to 32mp, the other small amount of mana gifts are still 50mp. My post was post-nerf (to elemental link only, the balance update that brought this change was very clear) as per the wording.
There never was any nerf on moderate amount of mana gifts.
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@u2371 I am neither a English native speaker nor am I good writer. Thus, if there is a better description, I will adopt that. 
From what @Elioty33 told me, there is no such modifier in the code for Slayer or Ninja. Those have 1100 MP and 490 MP as charge values, respectively.
Only mana speeds with modifiers are Magic (-220, 0), Styx (1000, 1000) and Tides (-250) right now.
@Zack Did you already plan further tests for Styx or may I suggest some?
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Per mil values here, not percentage 
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I got a bunch of new data:
First a ninja, Cobalt, with 40% mana generation bonus from Thanatos, charging directly with 7 tiles to try to exactly charge charge 2.
980 MP = 700 x 1.4
=> Cobalt’s charge2 is exactly charged
That should prove that the charge1 is 490 MP and charge2 is also based on 490 MP, potentially with a mana modifier.
Another test with Cobalt and +40% mana generation bonus from Thanatos. This time I charge Cobalt with 4 tiles, then 3 tiles to see, if his charge2 is exactly charged again.
=> Cobalt’s charge2 is exactly charged
That should prove that charge2 is 490 MP and the mana modifier is 0%.
I charged Thanatos with mana potions (+60%) and minor mana potions (+25%), and Thanatos seemed to charge normally, with no +100% mana modifier active for the potions.
Now as next test there is Shale with +5% mana generation bonus (Phenexa’s +5% do not apply as Shale is not alone, Cobalt is there from his family) and with 14 tiles his charge3 should be full.
1470 MP = 1400 x 1.05
=> Shale’s charge3 is not charged yet, although it’s close
=> Looks like there is a mana modifier for charge3, maybe something like -1% or -2%?
=> I’ll try to find a setup to test this (maybe I should just try to get enough tiles to spill over from charge2 into charge3 as one test?)
I have some more data on the Lucy pair where the 2% Lucy wasn’t charged with 4+3+5 tiles, but I got a draft error and will have to show the screenshots tomorrow.
The minor mana pots seem to provide slightly more mana to magic heroes and ninjas, will provide screenshots tomorrow.
At present I would only go for the required mana for a 5* styx hero on defense.
If you have further tests, please go ahead and make suggestions 
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Hmmm very strange. Can you try to rerun this test but without ghosting any tiles to see if it makes a difference? There’s definitely no mana generation modifier in the game for Ninja charge mana speed.
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I think the hidden mana regen bonus might have some effect on the mana pot too.
Styxs and magics have hidden mana regen bonus. Why are you so sure that the ninjas don’t have it ? Have you ever test about that before ? If yes, it might be useful if you quote your test here.
Hmm because I’m the Oracle and I can see in the orbs (game data). It doesn’t give me the formulas but I have all the parameters and their names, which helps in guessing how there are used.
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Guess ? 
Maybe, you miss something in your formulas from game data or your formulas isn’t complete because the mana mechanism is pretty complicate.
That is why we are here and he hasn’t just posted the formula. 
But thanks to @Elioty33 our understanding of the mana mechanisms has greatly improved! 
And thanks to @Zack for all his tests!
And thanks to @G_H_O_S_T for starting this topic!
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Ironically, after I say that for a day, SG just release the hero that give small amount of mana per turn but isn’t the element link .
Just had a look at this one and it’s also 50mp/0.5 tiles worth of mana, just like Gramps (which is already released in the game for over a year so not a new mechanics) and Xnolphod C coming early next month
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Here’s some data for head scratching.
Mages
First, my 2x Lucys, one with 2% and one with 0%, both charging with 4 tiles, 3 tiles and 5 tiles
For unknown reasons even +2% Lucy is not charged here
Another test with both Lucys with 3 tiles, 4 tiles, 1 tile and 4 tiles:
Again, for unknown reasons even +2% Lucy is not charged.
Ninjas
I also did some more tests with Cobalt with Sapphire, and Cobalt with Shale, with each of them with +5% mana generation bonus from a mana troop level 1.
3+4+4+3 tiles = charge3 is full (Cobalt with Sapphire, no bard)
3+3+4+4 tiles = charge3 is full (Cobalt with Sapphire, no bard)
8+6 tiles = charge is full (Cobalt with Sapphire, no bard)
3+2+6+3 tiles = charge3 is full (Cobalt with Sapphire, no bard)
4+4+3+3 tiles = charge3 is full (Cobalt with Sapphire and Phenexa)
4+3+6+1 tiles = charge3 is NOT full (Cobalt with Shale and Phenexa)
Since charge3 kept filling up with 14 tiles at 5%, I put Phenexa in, although she couldn’t provide +5 bonus to the ninjas due to their family bonus.
Here’s the last one with 4+3+6+1 tiles for Cobalt:
Again, Cobalt’s charge3 is not full and I don’t know why.
Mana potions
First is Willow with 0% and Arges with 0% being charged with mana from a tornado (+40%) and a mana potion (+60%), while Cobalt with 0% getting mana from 4 minor mana potions:
The first charge of Willow and Arges is exactly filled, as expected. Cobalt has slightly more mana than just charge1.
If minor mana potions give exactly 25%, why does he get slightly more mana from them?
Milena with 0%, Arges with 0% and Cobalt with 0% get mana from a tornado (40%) and then a mana potion (60%):
The first charge of Milena, Arges and Cobalt is exactly charged, as expected.
Then Milena with 0% and Arges with 0% get mana from 4 minor mana potions each:
While Arges’ first charge is exactly full, Milena has slightly more mana than her first charge.
If minor mana potions give exactly 25%, why does she get slightly more mana from them?
I repeated this with Sapphire with +0% and with Thanatos with +0% and gave them 4 minor mana potions each:
Same result: first charge of Thanathos is exactly charged, but Sapphire has slightly more mana.
Is this due to rounding up for 25% of 550 MP and 490 MP?
25% of 600 MP = 150 MP
25% of 490 MP = 122.5 MP
25% of 550 MP = 137.5 MP