# New mana per turn calculation on defense? We investigate Vol 2

Summary post incoming…

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Hey guys,

in all the guides I’ve seen here in the forum and various other channels it says that - on defense - each hero gains 100 mana per turn/round and 50 mana per tile hit.

Given the following:

Very fast = 650
Fast = 800
Average = 1000
Slow = 1200
Very Slow = 1350

it should be that e.g.:

• a corner Zeline (fast) with crit troop is fully charged after 8 turns
• and a corner Mother North (slow) with crit troop is fully charged and ready to fire after 12 turns.

However, I have observed that the above mentioned Zeline and Mother North charged in 10 and 15 turns, respectively without getting hit by any tiles. Quick maths, they got 80 mana per turn instead of 100!

This means there was either an error in our community calculations or SG changed the mana meta per turn for defensive heroes to 80?

I am currently still investigating whether the 50 mana per tile are still accurate.

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It’s certainly news to me. The typical complaint is about defenses firing “too quickly” after a patch rather than slower than before.

ETA: are you by chance running any talented Sorcerers?

Nope, no talented Sorcerers on my team that could have caused the decrease in mana generation.

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It has come to the attention of several players that the mana generated per turn has recently decreased from 1 “unit” to 0.8 “units” which means that defense heroes charge a special at a slower rate. The bug effectively makes Slow and Very Slow heroes unusable on a defense team while also making it easier to win raids and fill chests.

Please resolve the bug or explain the change in mana generation logic, which has been previously unreported in any change log.

V

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Nahhhhhh. First of all where’s your evidence. Second of all I’ve been raiding average mana Guins all day who charge super fast. If anything defense heroes gain mana too fast.

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Way to add something constructive to this post. I agree with V that mana gen for defense teams seems off. It took 16 turns to fully charge and fire a slow hero that wasn’t hit by any tiles.

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Just to make sure I understandit…it isnt the tile charging you think has changed, it’s the per turn mana generation. Is that correct?

How are you determining this? By counting number of turns and tile hits to charge?

Correct. The per turn mana generation, which can be counted by raiding and counting the number of turns that it takes for a hero to charge without hitting it with tiles. Heroes are ~20% slower to charge.

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simply dumped tiles on one side of the board and never hit the slow on the other side with any tiles.

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Also referenced here: New mana per turn meta on defense? 80 mana per turn instead of 100!

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I observed the same and opened up a bug thread here: Mana Generation for Defending Heroes in Raids

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Thanks. It will be interesting to hear if this is a bug or intended.

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If the SG change game mechanics, do they usually put it in change log or release note?

I can’t find any release note that indicate change in mana gain per turn of the defense team.

@Kerridoc usually know more about mana generation.

There has been nothing in the change logs about this observed change. It’s a big deal if it’s happenied.

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Thanks for supporting my case, Verd!

I have recorded evidence to proof my case, if needed to share. l’m just hesitant to share it right now since it was recorded in Beta. It doesn’t include any new heroes but I rather wanna play it safe…

I’m also currently investigating whether the 50 mana units per tile hit has changed. And it seems like it did change as well… but no final statement here, yet.

Edit: @Kerridoc can you merge mine and Verd’s thread? No need to have 2 thread about it I guess.

Ok, here’s an incident that I recorded on LIVE, so it’s safe to share.

Both Magni and Drake have a level 9 and 10 mana troop, respectively (you’ll see at the end of the video). Both are fast heroes so (to my knowledge) they need 800 mana to charge. They haven’t been hit until their mana was fully charged. That should normally happen after the 8th turn since (to our latest knowledge) you get 100 mana per turn. 800 / 100 = 8 turns. However, the recorded video shows that their mana is charged up after 9 turns!

So, what does that possibly mean?
a) Total mana needed to be fully charged was changed (I don’t think so, because on offense it’s still accurate afaik)
b) mana generation per turn on defense was changed from 100 units to 80 units.

As you can see, this change in mana meta on defense also drastically changes how mana troops work and benefit you! Even a low level 9 and 10 mana troop let Drake and Magni charge 1 round “faster” than with a crit troop. More importantly tho, slow heroes like MN or Alby (assuming it’s 80 mana per turn) are completely worthless now in the corner, since it takes them 15 turns (without being hit and with a crit troop) to be fully charged.

@Petri @mhalttu Could we get a statement on this, please? I also submitted a support ticket.

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Thank you for the report, we’ll investigate this here!

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We have now investigated our logs here and it seems this is working as intended (and there hasn’t been a change in the logic).

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An answer without giving out the actual number, I love it.

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