Anzogh – New April 2019 HOTM (Hero of the Month): First Thoughts & Discussion

It seems majority of those who like him use him with Wilbur. I have Anzogh but no Wilbur so I wonder how good is he without Wilbur or G.falcon

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With the same average speed, they can fire at the same turn: Wilbur 》 Falcon 》 Anzogh…

Wilbur give -44% defense down
Falcon give -54% fire defense down

As defense in calculation is ^1.35
Against 3 enemies which was previously hit by Falcon, Anzogh will hit around 6 times its normal skill damage… that would be instant death… and massive heal.

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What if I do not have either of the heroes? Is he still useful?

You can still combine it with Boldtusk which have the same speed and +48% but of course the result is not as good as Wilbur+Falcon. Wilbur is a game changer, regardless of Anzogh, you should try to get it from Atlantis.

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Unfortunately in reality Wilbur and Falcon won’t increase the damage Anzogh does by 6 times.
Nothing wrong with your math, but when I use them all three, the damage is only
doubled. Wilbur, Falcon and Anzogh (other fire heroes give same results, e.g. Scarlett) are 8/8 special. With Wilbur, Falcon and Wu it gets to 4 times, but only when it hits

I do find it a bit off when I experimented with level 1 Frida and Valen in my alt account.

I was using this formula:

In that formula, -40% in defense from Frida will result in:
100 x ( θ x Att / (1-40%) Def ) ^ 1.35
= ((1 / 0.6) ^ 1.35) x 100 x ( θ x Att / Def ) ^ 1.35
= 1.993 x (100 x ( θ x Att / Def ) ^ 1.35)
= 1.993 Damage

However when I try it with Ragnhild, it only increase it from 39 to 65 (1.667 times damage)

It is as if there is no ^1.35
1/(1-40%) = 1/0.6 = 1.667

This is also the case when I combined Frida, Valen, and Ragnhild.

If there is ^1.35
The result should have been:
1/(1-0.4)^1.35 = 1.993x damage (from Frida -40% ice defense)
1/(1-0.2)^1.35 = 1.352 damage (from Valen -20% defense)
1.993 x 1.352 = 2.694x damage

However my Ragnhild damage was only increased from 39 to 78 (2x) as if there is no ^1.35:
1/(1-40%) = 1/0.6 = 1.667
1/(1-20%) = 1/0.8 = 1.25
1.667 x 1.25 = 2

As I have mentioned above, my Ragnhild damage was doubled with -40% elemental defense debuff and -20 defense debuff. Therefore, I believe that with Falcon -54% elemental defense debuff and Wilbur -44% debuff, the result should have been more than doubled.

Suppose we ignore the ^1.35, it will be:
1/(1-54%) = 1/0.46 = 2.174
1/(1-44%) = 1/0.56 = 1.786
2.174 x 1.786 = 3.882x damage

If there is indeed ^1.35, it should be:
1/(1-54%)^1.35 = 1/0.46^1.35 = 2.853
1/(1-44%)^1.3/= 1/0.56^1.35 = 2.187
2.853 x 2.187 = 6.241x damage

Can you post a comparative screenshoot?

@Kerridoc is more familiar with damage formula, I hope he can point out why Wilbur + Falcon only result in doubling the damage from Anzogh. Maybe he can also check my math whether it’s correct or not.

N.B.: I only did it one time so it doesnt’ take into account random parameter.

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I can’t tell you that definitively, wish I could. Marjana is a great hero who has been my tank since forever. I was just trying to quantify how good Anzogh has played as I level him by putting him on her level.

That is a tough call but I think I’d level Marjana ahead of him all things considered. But it’s close which says a lot for Anzogh. Not seeing your full situation, this is just a thought, but I would probably load him bc you don’t know when you’ll get Marjana via TC20

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I think @Garanwyn would have good insights here too.

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The problem here is that all 3 have to survive to fire. I find these teams that are dependent on 4s to work really unreliable - if you don’t kill the tank before it fires, odds are you’re losing a 4 hero. I guess it’s fine if you’re not fighting maxed teams though.

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My results are more consistent with this math:
when it states the defense is reduced by x% the damage is increased by
(1+(x/100))^1.35 so for example for:

-Falcon the damage is increased 1.54^1.35=1.791 (79% increase)
-Wilbur the damage is increased 1.44^1.35=1.636 (64% increase)
-Gormek (or Valen or many others) 1.34^1.35=1.484

The relationship between debuffs seems additive rather than multiplicative and
for targets debuffed by both Wilbur and Falcon the damage Anzogh (or other reds)
would do is 1+0.791+0.636=2.427
I know it’s more than doubled, but it’s not even close to 6 times or even triple

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Fortunately those 4* are sturdy ones. I am not in the level of raiding in diamond yet, but a whale I know love to bring Wilbur in his 5* attack team.

That is not how it is supposed to work. But I am not the one who create this formula, I didn’t participate in the research, it was already there before I play the game, so I can’t implore it further.

Hope @Garanwyn or @Kerridoc can offer further explanation :sweat_smile:

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They are also not-uncommon choices for emblems in the Monk and Paladin class - especially for a five star poor roster - which further enhances their durability.

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But what class level do you think they become durable enough? I’ve since gotten 5* replace and moved the emblems but I had Melandor and Sabina each up at around class 12 going def hp… they were still just a good shot away from the graveyard

Maybe I am misremembering but in diamond 12 class levels didn’t make much difference and I was thrilled when I got Ariel for my heal

Melendor and Sabina are glass canon, meanwhile Falcon and Wilbur are sturdy, even sturdier than some 5* heroes. Even without emblem, Falcon and Wilbur are already sturdier than your emblemed Melendor/Sabina.

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Nicely caught. It seems there indeed isn’t ^1.35 in damage formula for elementally debuffed enemies. I’m happy I managed this little test on my first try :wink:

Attacking hero:

First case:
Screenshot_20190520-210650

Without exponent: 100×(4,62×938÷(1,2x811×0,46)) = 968 ([587…1595] with random parameter), damage done: 1142, with exponent: 2142.

Second case:

Without exponent: 100×(4,62×938÷(1,2×(962−328)×0,46)) = 1238 ([751…2041] with random parameter), damage done: 1182, with exponent: 2987

Edit: Added 1.2 multiplier for 20% defense bonus for defense team.

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Well, “enough” is just about the trickiest possible word. :stuck_out_tongue:

Here’s one way of thinking about it:

Five Star Survivability

Let’s assume that each hero has a survivability that is equal to two times their defense plus their hit points. That isn’t quite true, but it’ll get us close enough. We can calculate that the average five star hero has a survivability of 2,779.

Guardian Falcon

Base survivability: 2,634
At +8 it will be 2,775 if I take every defense / hit points bonus possible (and favor defense over hit points if that’s the decision). At that point, Falcon will have ‘average’ five star survivability. In reality he’ll probably already be a little bit above average because of Protect procing some plus defense for him from time to time.

Wilbur

Base survivability: 2,523
Again favoring defense and hit points (and defense over hit points), Wilbur will need to be +14 to have a survivability of 2,779. That’s a lot more talents than Falcon, which makes since given that Falcon’s survivability starts higher. Again, note that Wilbur’s actual survivability will be higher than the number suggests because of the added bonus of Withstand. Finally, note additionally that the very nature of Wilbur’s special skill means his actual survivability will always be higher than his on paper survivability. It is very possible that Wilbur’s base survivability is actually higher than Falcon’s given their specials, but hopefully this gives you a good way to think about your question.

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That is a great way of quantifying things, IvyData

Seeing your breakdown and what yelnat touched on, I get it. I was dealing with extreme deficit cases in my example heroes but for some 4* heroes with valuable skills and strong starting stats (relatively) emblems can push them to where they can be effective against 5* opponents.

It makes sense, thanks

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Any attack boost and defence buff obviously increased Anzogh’s functionally.
I try him with Kiril in raid without stacking. And he actually won the raid for me.
Having used him without any buff or stacking, I have to admit he is definately well below par by a hotM standard.

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He is indeed the worst HOTM in a long time.
He’s as bad as Aegir before the buff. He needs other heroes to be useful. By himself he is just mediocre

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He is not a worthy HotM by himself.
Hopefully SG will buff him sooner just like Aegir and co…