Better defensive flank for Aegir: Boldtusk or Aeron?

[sleepyhead]

Hi all, I recently got some shiny new toys (fully ascended Aeron and Aegir, a new Marjana whom I can fully ascend with current mats I have, and Joon + his costume missing only one Dart to fully ascend).

Considering them and my other current maxed 5s (Seshat, Inari, Margaret, Lepus) and key 4s, what raid/war defense team would you recommend I work towards?

As I am a non-spender, I do not foresee / expect to get heroes such as Mother North or Santa. So I would like to start planning my defense

Current defense: Seshat +5 / Inari + 3 / Boldtusk +11 / Lepus +4 / Jack O’Hare +9

It’s a decent defense, and manages to keep me in high Platinum / low Diamond. I’m content to stay in low Diamond, but it would be nice to hold more cups and have an easier time opening raid chests in Diamond all the time!

I’ve tried Margaret as my Green on defense (flank), but hold more cups with Jack as wing.

Thinking of:

1. Seshat / Boldtusk / Aegir / Marjana / Joon * (Inari while Joon isn’t maxed)

– gives me two Red flanks to punish attackers stacking Green against Aegir. Once Joon is added, then only Boldy and Aegir will have dispellable effects also, and I will have 3 strong snipers to punish those who cannot take Aegir out fast enough.

– I considered going rainbow, but Jack is better as wing than flank. And Margaret IMO is more an offensive hero than a defensive one, so I’m not considering her. Gregorion or Kadilen could be nice, but I need two tonics more so it will take a while. (btw, I’m leaning towards Gregorion as my next Green 5* to ascend, not Kadilen, as my overall priorities are Raid/War offense and Titans, rather than defense).

– I considered Aeron instead of Seshat, but I like Seshat’s sturdiness with minions and greater speed. Aeron WOULD protect Aegir from, say, Hel’s mana block… but I would need to drop Boldtusk so I can still have enough offensive bite.

2. But if I do add Aeron in…

Seshat / Marjana / Aegir / Aeron / Joon ? (Inari while Joon isn’t maxed)

– Marjana sturdier than Joon, plus opposite weakness to Aegir, so she goes into flank
– Seshat still in wing as her minions make her tough to kill there
– Aeron and Seshat separated so people stacking Yellow can’t take advantage

Choice 1

Choice 2

Choice 3: I’m crazy for even considering these options, here’s a totally new one!

My full 4* and 5* roster:

1. Purple:

• Seshat +5
• Aeron +2
• Proteus +19
• 2nd Proteus +3
• Sabina +18
• Domitia 3/70
• Two Tiburtus 1/1 (they’re both new from Christmas summon, and one of them is next project after Cyprian)
• Sartana 2/23 (will bring to 3/70 after Tibs)
• 2nd Sabina 1/23 (will ascend after Cyp, Tibs and Sarty)

2. Yellow

• Inari +3
• Li Xiu +15
• Chao +3
• Joon 3/53 (current project, planning to ascend over Rana and Leo, waiting for one Dart)
• Joon’s costume 1/1
• Rana 3/70
• Leonidas 3/5 (will bring to 3/70 after Joon)
• 2nd Chao 1/1

3. Green

• Margaret +1
• Jack O’Hare +9
• Skittleskull +3
• Melendor +7
• Gadeirus +1
• Caedmon 4/55 (current project)
• Gregorion 3/70 (will probably get tonics over Kadi)
• Kadilen 3/6 (will level to 3/70 after Caed and LJ)
• Little John 1/1 (next after Caed)
• Kashhrek 3/60 (not going to ascend)
• Gobbler 1/1
• 2nd Melendor 1/1 (will work on after Kadi)

4. Red

• Boldtusk +11
• Marjana 2/55 (current project, have all the mats to fully ascend)
• Sir Lancelot +14
• Gormek +9
• Scarlett +10
• 2nd Boldtusk +1
• Colen +2
• Kelile +1
• 2nd Gormek 3/60 (might ascend if I have surplus mats)
• 2nd Colen, Scarlett 1/1 (might work on if I have surplus mats)

5. Blue

• Aegir 4/9 (current project)
• Isarnia 3/70
• Lepus +4
• Kiril +7
• Grimm +12
• Triton +6
• Sonya +14
• Valeria 3/60 (next to ascend)
• Boril 3/60
• Agwe 3/60
• Duplicates of Sonya, Grimm and Valeria all at 1/1 (may eventually ascend if I have surplus mats)

Family pic: prioritizing maxed 5s, 5s I’m currently working on/planning to ascend soon, and maxed 4s / 4s on the way

Thanks

[DaveCozy]

@sleepyhead

Choice 1

I would not do this one. Boldtusk and Aegir are fairly passive heroes, and it leaves your center open to getting bombarded by blue stacks – neutral against Aegir, strong against your flanks, and the fact that Grimm and Isarnia are blue heroes means they’ll take advantage of Aegir’s damage share.

@sleepyhead

Choice 2

Aeron is also fairly passive, but in my opinion he makes more sense with Aegir than Boldtusk – his shield against new status ailments means that he’ll protect Joon from being the weak link the enemy targets with their defense down + skills hero.

I agree that you should ascend Gregorion, personally I think he’s your best bet for a full 5* rainbow defense team. Kadilen flank is decent with Aegir tanks as well (since SS defense further protects the entire team). But I’d want a stronger flank than Marjana for that to work better.

[SWEG]

Use Margaret and then ur team is rainbow. Marjana not boldtusk. Seshat not Aeron.

[solipsism]

I’d have to disagree here, non-rainbow defense would be better than Margaret. If you must have rainbow, use a 4-star green.

Margaret contributes virtually nothing to defense other than slash attacks. And since you’re tanking with Aegir you can expect a dispeller on the attack team. Margaret herself can’t be dispelled but who cares, she’s just a body.

[SWEG]

She’s very fast and your team will have 90% chance to dodge snipers lol
No she’s not like a tier 1 defender but people are so weird about stuff like this. She’s fine. She’s better than using double reds, or a 4*. Come on.

[sleepyhead]

@DaveCozy

Aeron is also fairly passive, but in my opinion he makes more sense with Aegir than Boldtusk – his shield against new status ailments means that he’ll protect Joon from being the weak link the enemy targets with their defense down + skills hero.

Thanks @DaveCozy, choice 2 it is then! I did worry about having 2 passives in the center, but Aeron is best at flank so he protects 2 heroes. And 3 fast snipers should hopefully make up for 2 passives.

@DaveCozy

I agree that you should ascend Gregorion, personally I think he’s your best bet for a full 5* rainbow defense team. Kadilen flank is decent with Aegir tanks as well (since SS defense further protects the entire team). But I’d want a stronger flank than Marjana for that to work better.

Once Gregorion is also ascended, how would you recommend I re-arrange the defense (assuming my roster stays the same)?

Seshat / Gregorion / Aegir / Marjana / Joon? I think the Green/Blue/Red core still works best, plus Greg at average mana should be flank rather than wing. And brittle Joon works best in wing, as does Seshat with her minions.

[sleepyhead]

@solipsism

I’d have to disagree here, non-rainbow defense would be better than Margaret. If you must have rainbow, use a 4-star green.

Margaret contributes virtually nothing to defense other than slash attacks. And since you’re tanking with Aegir you can expect a dispeller on the attack team. Margaret herself can’t be dispelled but who cares, she’s just a body.

Thanks @solipsism .

Do you have a preference between my Choice 1 and Choice 2 ?

And just curious, but which of my 4* Greens would you pick, if you had to? I am struggling to fit any of them into this planned defense; Jack O’Hare as flank doesn’t seem like a good idea, Skittles and Gadeirus are too slow, Melendor too passive (and without Boldtusk’s better Fighter ability), and Caedmon just doesn’t seem strong enough.

[sleepyhead]

@SWEG

She’s very fast and your team will have 90% chance to dodge snipers lol
No she’s not like a tier 1 defender but people are so weird about stuff like this. She’s fine. She’s better than using double reds, or a 4*. Come on.

Thanks @SWEG . I did not initially consider Margaret, because I tried her in my current defense (with a Seshat / Inari / Boldtusk / Margaret / Lepus) arrangement, and wasn’t happy with the results. But then, that’s a passive center with only 2 attackers… maybe Margaret will work better with Aegir boosting her defense.

But do you think Aegir’s defense boost will work against Margaret’s dodge? Higher defense = lower damage = less chance to dodge. Though I think that’s a really small problem; overall it just means my team will take very little damage if Aegir and Margaret are active at the same time…

[SWEG]

I’m pretty sure defense boost won’t affect her dodge % because she dodges BEFORE damage is assigned which means she just thinks how heavy that hit that’s coming at your heroes is, BEFORE it hits the wall of a defense buff. Pretty sure she will still provide 90% chance to dodge a hit from Lianna for example. I’d say between Aegir making your team basically indestructible and Margaret making your heroes dodge anything that would actually cause them damage, it’s a decent start at a decent defense. The other 3 heroes just need to have some damage output. Seems good.

[sleepyhead]

Thanks! Would be great for my defense if it works that way, though bad for my offense (as I usually use her beside Jack or Lepus, lol); I’ve always assumed that defensive debuffs (like Jack’s or Lepus’ skills cause) affect the damage rate, and therefore Marge’s dodge chance.

But I have neither the time nor the patience to thoroughly test this, so I just enjoy that feeling whenever Marge (or her teammates) dodges a Lianna or Poseidon hit…

Edit:

Nobody seems to really know either, so far (thanks to Davecozy for this great thread on Margaret’s special skill FAQs):

@DaveCozy

Q7: If defensive buffs are active (Spirit Link, special skill def+, general def+, elemental def+) vs an attacker that would do the 90% attack, does she (or her neighbors) get the full 90% dodge, or anywhere in between down to the 1/5th?

There is no officially confirmed answer on this, and likely there won’t be without a developer response or without very thorough testing.

We can assume that the dodge rate is based on the damage after all buffs and ailments are taken into account

[DaveCozy]

@sleepyhead

Seshat / Gregorion / Aegir / Marjana / Joon? I think the Green/Blue/Red core still works best

I agree, and I’d do that personally

[sleepyhead]

Thank you very much for your input it’s great to have something to work towards!

[solipsism]

@SWEG

She’s very fast and your team will have 90% chance to dodge snipers lol
No she’s not like a tier 1 defender but people are so weird about stuff like this. She’s fine. She’s better than using double reds, or a 4*. Come on.

But your team doesn’t have a 90% chance of dodging, 3/5 or 2/4 of your allies do. Why would I ever fire a sniper into them when I have a choice? I can target unprotected allies, or wait a turn or two to fire, or dispell her neighbors, or kill her with tiles. So many options to avoid the dodge.

And Margaret next to Aegir? Two heroes who do nothing to hurt me? I could bring slow heroes and wait all day to cast if I felt like it.

I’m not even as negative about Margaret in general as others are, but for her to be any use you need to be on offense and have the AI stupidly targeting her with snipers after she casts, no player would intentionally do that. I would 100% rather see her on defense than Caedmon, who will at least serve some purpose to slow me down.

[SWEG]

Fair point that there are ways to play around her. Like not using your special for a couple turns, or not selecting the target you really want to select. She’s still doing something. And you don’t always have the luxury to wait a few turns before using your special eh
Sometimes 2 turns is a loooooong time. She’s very fast mana so if your plan is to just not hit Aegir with Lianna until the buff wears off, the buff might just keep charging, and keep firing
So she will have done her job. She prevented Lianna from targeting the tank. She’s not that bad.

[solipsism]

@SWEG

She’s very fast mana so if your plan is to just not hit Aegir with Lianna until the buff wears off, the buff might just keep charging, and keep firing
So she will have done her job. She prevented Lianna from targeting the tank. She’s not that bad.

Sure, unless I bring say, Melendor, who will have ample time to charge regardless of board quality since the front defenders have been doing absolutely nothing to me. His heal erases whatever paltry slash attack damage I’ve taken, and his dispell leaves Aegir with his **** in his hand, and then it’s open season.

In all seriousness, I enjoy the banter and respect the differing opinions here. If Margaret is a passable defender in your gameplay, then that’s what she is. As for me, I’ll continue salivating when I roll a Margaret team.

[SWEG]

I agree Margaret isn’t ideal for defense no. I just think she’s atleast better than doubling up on a color, or using a 4*
It’s when people say she’s useless I have to disagree.

[DaveCozy]

Just want to add to the Margaret discussion – I agree that she’s not a good defender, and I also agree that she has her uses. Offensively mainly, against sniper heavy teams.

Our other co-leader in my alliance uses her for such teams – not to mention her high match damage and element link against fire makes her a great ally for stacking green.

But for the sake of this discussion: I would not put her as a flank to a passive tank like Aegir. I think that would be fairly useless – Aegir’s flanks should ideally deal damage.

Only reason I recommended Aeron was because at least he has an undispellable ailment shield. A good technique to deal with Aegir teams, is to decrease the defense of the hero with the weakest defense: in this team, it’s Joon. But Aeron would prevent that from happening once he uses his skill, and 3 turns is better than 2 turns.

[sleepyhead]

Great discussion, all. As I have Margaret, it’s helpful to me too. I use her a lot on offense (she almost always makes my Green 3-stack against Blue tanks), and I use her to protect my squishy MVPs like Proteus.

I would still prefer Aeron, as I also like the opposing colors with Joon (and he would protect Aegir against ailments such as Hel’s mana block; I always use Proteus to stop Aegir tanks when I’m on offense…) But I’m open to testing this defense with Aeron and with Margaret, just to see. Who knows, maybe Margaret will pleasantly surprise us