4* troops - mana or crit?

There are two varieties of four star troops: those that add critical or those that add mana. I realize that any four-star troop is a luxury, but in the happy circumstance where both varieties are available, what do you prefer? Why?

10 Likes

Personally Crit. I can add mana with blue potion. I have no potion that gives me crit. :wink:

15 Likes

Agree with Rook here.
I expect the % uplift in mana generation would be small (haven’t been privileged enough to see enough 4* troops to have seen any mana uplift - I only have the 1).

A small percentage uplift of a slowly generating mana pool is hardly noticeable, and you’d still have to resort to mana potions when in difficulty just as much as always… so you’re not really getting anything worthwhile for the mana uplift.

But Crit lifts your effective damage over time, which is always worthwhile.

3 Likes

Having both types in 4* in all colors its definitely an options thing, depends on your team.
Many factors to take into play.
To get an answer specific to you would require more information, such as what you want to target raids titans events etc and the make up of your teams.
There is no one simple short answer on this question.

2 Likes

TLDR: Mana regen on troops is still basically worthless for the 99.9%

It takes an overwhelming amount of investment (we’re talking hundreds of dollars US, perhaps even thousands when talking Fast heroes) to make any meaningful difference on raid attack.

Defense is a harder question. I haven’t really nailed down defense mana gain to my liking, but it’s not terribly likely to cut a turn off most heroes even when taking damage, and as a result, it doesn’t help there either.

I know SG tweaked these troops twice since I’ve been playing (once mana, once health regen), I just don’t think they tweaked it enough.

For the curious the math basically works like this:

N tiles * (1 + % mana from troops).

Fast = 8 tiles required
Average = 10 tiles required
Slow = 12 tiles required.

So at the level 17 breakpoint for mana regen troops, which is 11%

Fast: 7 * 1.11 = 7.77 < 8, still 8 tiles required
Average: 9 * 1.11 = 9.99 < 10, still 10 tiles required.
Slow: 11 * 1.11 = 12.21 > 12, so 11 tiles required to charge it.

It’s a non-trivial investment to get to that level, and I think the next breakpoint is 23 which’d take it to 13% if the progression holds… and taking a average hero to 9 tiles is really the first sweet spot as there aren’t many people using slow heroes for raid attack, or titans, or even much on raid defense either.

Over time Crit is a better investment, as healing increase isn’t uber fantastic anywhere either. Short of yet another re-work, the crit strike 4* troops are useful at all levels of investment, and much much better than the mana regen ones up through level 17 and beyond in my estimation.

As a result, unless you’re planning to spend a large amount of cash on this game, and maybe even then TBH, invest in the crit strike 4* troops.

24 Likes

While some people have made some very good points of info here they still not looking at the overall picture focusing on certain individual points to make theirs look better.


I did both of those at same level for comparison .




Thats what those troops do in actual battle to the hero stats compared to roster view.
One thing every single person arguing for crit troops is forgetting is about ghosting. Any % on mana build is doubled.
No individual enemy in game takes full screen on hits. None not even titans. Crit hits are a random event, where as base stats are solid and effect specials. Yes the heaking effect counts on regen for Ares and Alberich too.
Like I said before there is no straight forward answer on this and should be tailored if possible to each individual team.

16 Likes

Even when doubling it doesn’t help.

2 x 5 = 10 (base for Average)

2 x 4 * 1.11 = 8.88 (with level 17 mana troop) < 10. Still not enough to save a tile.

It just doesn’t work short of presumably level 23 assuming average mana speed heroes no matter which way you squint at it :).

And fast heroes, you have to get said mana troops to level 29 to make any appreciable mana regen difference.

Odie was the only person in game at that level of investment, even OJ is only at level 26 now, and gets absolutely no value out of that stat.

Basically, mana regen stat is for those who are bad at math :(. SG really should make it better or do something else entirely with it.

8 Likes

Or unlucky pullers haha!
I’ll level a “poor” 4* over a “good” 3* troop any day.

3 Likes

Lol you’re accusing me of squinting yet still harping on one aspect.

Fair but even looking at the entire bit using level 16 troops since Arien has both in his defense lineup:

Mana regen 4*:
22% ATK
15% DEF
16% Healing (dubious stat at best)
9% Mana (literally useless at this level)

Vs. Crit Strike 4*:
17% ATK
21% DEF
6% Health
11% Crit strike

There’s no wasted stat bonus on the crit strike one, regardless of your team comp, and taking Arien’s team comp explicitly (with zero healers anyway)

5% ATK vs. 6% DEF, 6% Health, 11% Crit strike

Given current mechanics in every phase of the game, I’ll take that second set every time.

To be fair if you run a bunch of healers or what not well maybe heal bonus makes a meaningful difference, but that’s not an optimal team design for anything in game currently.

4 Likes

I only have the privilege of using 3* troops. So far in my personal experience the random Critical attack has saved the day for me many times in raids more than the benefits from mana regen. So kind of agree with @Revelate :smile:

Now if you have heroes with mana regen 4* mix that with ghosting and Albrich’s 10% mana regen every turn until dispelled and then it makes a difference.

1 Like

Ghosting is irrelevant to the efficacy of mana regen troops unfortunately.

I’m playing around with Alby, and just not finding him that awesome on raid attack but that might be my team comp (which includes Ares / Sabina currently, too much support not a enough pew pew).

I’ll have to really look at the mana regen troops with Alby but still not buying it even in the best case scenario: with an average hero he accelerates mana gain by effectively 1 turn every turn as near as I’ve been able to determine… as such, it still makes no meaningful difference to the turn math to use mana regen troops even at the current level 19 on an average hero.

I wonder if the addition of folks like Khagan make mana-regenerating troops worthwhile. With Khagan’s +24 and a troop at, say, +11, you could have a +35% mana regeneration rate, for five rounds anyway.

That could be enough to turn a slow mana-charger into an average one. Not a small feat, though the five-round window of opportunity is a bit of a crunch.

Alby alone takes a slow hero and turns them into a fast one (12 - 4 = 8). Alby is explicitly 4 turns / 4 tiles per hero, every single one as it scales according to mana speed of the target.

Khagan / Lancelot math is a little harder, not enough people with Khagan that are able / willing to test or at least that the little crew that attacked this problem a few weeks ago were able to determine.

That said did a little testing on Lancelot on beta and yeah he’s tasty but haven’t nailed it down yet in terms of that + troops.

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The only case where i’ll use a mana troop over the crit ones is on raid teams, where (to me at least) strike first with a special attack is more valuable then hit with a critical strike.

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Ugh. I hate that Alberich is so powerful.

Khagan definitely doesn’t do that. His mana increase is based on tiles, which severely limits his utility—and makes him a joke compared to Alberich.

On attack maybe, defenders get incoming tile damage (ballpark 0.5/tile they get hit with… though cascades change this and I have no real way to estimate that even other than to state “it’s less”) and a 1 tile / turn gain anyway.

Incidentally Khagan being slow was I suspect the primary reason Lancelot got nerfed on beta as Zero so excellently pointed out.

I’m of the opinion that you can bring one slow hero on raid attack and still be OK even against the top teams; however, Khagan vs. Alby raid attack is no contest. Defense it’s a more interesting conversation, Alby is no doubt excellent but he has a target on his back.

That 5% ATK also transaltes into higher crit damage. And those 5% will be multiplied after firing BT and Wu.

On the other hand 6% DEF and HP will be useful only if it actually saves my life. If I get hit by titan for 3/5 HP those 6% won’t save the day. Raid defense is a different story. Those 6% can be a difference between getting killed by tiles or firing a special.

Average damage of 100 over 10 hits:

  • 5% ATK = 105 average damage
  • 11% crit = 110 average damage (slightly greater than 110 but sloppy easy math)

Scale it by Wu or BT or anything else you want; that said, I’m off trying to raise a blue mana troop to 23 and also on the path to get a yellow mana troop to 11… and once those two things happen I’m going to get way more out of using the mana troop than crit strike troops; however, that’s because those are breakpoints for Athena and Jackal respectively taking Athena to 9 tiles, and Jackal to 6… and it will be sick just saying.

Up until those breakpoints, crit is going to be ahead… if you’re spending heavy absolutely you can get mana troops high enough eventually to make them useful, but when talking the fast heroes that are oh so popular everywhere in game currently, that’s a level 29 troop.

I’d also point out that on high level titans, or any progression one really, there’s a big difference if you can survive 3 hits instead of 2 after you’ve debuffed attack with Axe or what not… when we’re talking average titan damage, and giving yourself more time to manipulate the board to one you can kick ■■■ on, don’t discount that additional HP / DEF so easily. Similar applies to raid attacking… and given that raid defense gets a flat 20% damage bonus anyway, not really sure you need to scale Lianna all that much more just saying.

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