Question about titan levels (scaling)

I’m sure this has already been explained at great length somewhere before, by some E&P expert using lots of mathematical equations and a downloadable .pdf with lots of numbers and data, but I’m just looking for a general simplistic answer…

Okay. So here’s the question. My alliance currently has 11 members (between level 24 and 36). Our titans range from 4* (easy kills) to 6* (difficult for us to kill), we mainly try to stay in the 5* titan range. If we were to bring in more similarly leveled members, how much would that effect our ability to take on higher level titans?

I.e., if we doubled our current membership of 11 members who can take down 5* titans, to 22 equally leveled and talented members, would we then be able to take down 10* titans? Or would it be more like 7* titans?

I know that higher level titans have higher health pools, and probably also higher defense stats, so
it’s probably safe to assume that a player who averages 30k per titan hit on a 5* would not be able to average the same scores on a 10* titan. Therefore, doubling my alliance’s membership total would not effectively enable us to take on double the titan size… but still probably safe to assume that having more members would allow us to take on somewhat higher level titans (hopefully resulting in better overall loot).

TL;DR version: if one player (assuming the same overall average score) can kill a 5* titan with say, 50 flags, how many flags would that player need to use to be able to kill a 10* titan? Or is that impossible to estimate without more detail?

Well, in general titans of every star has a range of health and difficulty. So it does not scale linearly. The things is 4 or 5 star titans not only have low HP but also low defense. Higher star titans are almost difficult to beat without colour stacking because of their high defense. My alliance hits 9 star tirans whose health varies from 2.4~2.7 mil. So I would guess that if you double your current members you should be easily able to kill 7 stars and maybe the occasional 8 stars. 8 star titans are important, as it is the first titan (other than a rare 7 star), where every member should theoretically be able to achieve rank B, thus giving them loot tier 9, where the number of rolls for Ascension Mats goes from 2 to 3, thus increasing your chances of getting those unfarmable mats by 50%. Hope this makes sense. :slight_smile:


It does make sense, thank you. I didn’t think we would be able to take on 10* titans since none of us have 4k teams, but I figured a few more similarly leveled members might help us move up to 6* or 7*.

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It is not about having 4k teams, but the combination of the attacking heroes matter. And a Wukong definitely helps a lot… Ideally a titan team should have the following: attack buffer (Boldtusk, Kiril), defense debuffer (Grimm, Gormek, Tiburtus, Wilbur etc), two heroes with high attack stats (Scarlett, Colen, Little John etc), and one damage multiplier like WuKong/Ranvir/Tarlak /Miki. An elemental debuffer also helps a lot but those heroes are usually tougher to get (Jackal, Falcon, Panther etc).

This should help, I found it in the forums.


I use Wu on every titan, I’m almost always A or A+ (except for days when I’m busy and don’t get in as many hits as others). Most of my alliance members are F2P so they don’t all have Wu. The ones who have Wu usually get the higher scores.

I’ve also got BT, Grimm, Gormek, Scarlett, Colen, and LJ (though Colen and LJ aren’t final ascended). But most of my teammates don’t score as high as I do. If they all had my teams, we would already be killing higher level titans. I’m trying to base our titan killing abilities on our average hits, not just mine, because my hits are on the higher end of the spectrum for our overall alliance.

But anyway, I was just wondering if it might be worth it to consider merging with another smallish alliance with similarly leveled players. I’m extremely cautious about that prospect, though… I want our alliance to get better overall titan loot, and I know there are many other great small alliances out there who might also be interested in a merger, I just don’t know if it’s worth it to possibly jeopardize the great synergy and teamwork of my alliance just for the possibility of slightly better titan loot…


That is totally understandable, we all want to play with people we like, that is why I have never left my alliance. I guess the best scenario would be try and find some like minded players in the forum and try to recruit them in your alliance. That way your alliance can grow, otherwise with only fewer members the rise will be steep and there might be players who might lose interest in the long run. Not everybody is meant to go the distance. So having more players or a merger will help in that aspect. :slight_smile:

So far my current alliance recruiting has been restricted to people I know IRL. I started in a training alliance where I was the newb and worked my way up to leadership, recruiting was always a crapshoot. We would bring in new players, show them the ropes, they would say they were active and promise to hit the titans and level up war teams, but the majority of them ended up disappointing us. For that reason, I do not allow “randoms” in my current alliance. I’m not wasting time and effort trying to teach a new player who may or may not even bother sticking around for more than a week or two. I was more thinking about the possibility of merging with another small, but longstanding and active and loyal alliance of similarly leveled players (not too high or too low in level). Some of the alliances we have fought against in wars, for example. The ones who performed well against us and seemed coordinated, had similar level players and similar titan scores, I sometimes wonder if it might benefit both of our alliances if we were fighting alongside each other rather than against each other.

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In an alliance with 30, 1800-4100
But most are between 2500-3500
We easily take a 7* star titan 8* we do beat but usally with 4hours left
9* we had the other day bearly made a dent in it.


I mean, sucks that you couldn’t kill the 9*. But cool that you have 1800 players and are still able to take 7* and 8*.

Our current lowest members are just a tad bit below 3000 TP. Which I think is amazing progress, considering that just a few months ago they were barely above 2000.

yeah it was nowhere near the half way mark by the 12 hour mark haha! Was that cracken though!
Yeah is a training alliance so new people are able to join! Good to see team mates levelling up fast!
Here’s our titan score from the last one 8* flaming dragon

Awesome that you had no zeroes! The first alliance I was in was a training alliance, and we would often get a few zeroes from new members. Finding 30 members who all put in at least some effort every day is tough. Particularly important for me since my alliance is primarily a warring alliance, titans are mostly secondary for us, but if a player won’t even bother hitting the titan when they’re online, it’s safe for me to assume that they won’t be very useful in wars. And I can’t have that. If they’re going to be casual, they have to at the very least opt out of wars.

If you find such similar alliances, you can always try and reach out to them and have a chat in Discord or Line, and see how they feel about it. If their goals aligns with yours, it might be a very good idea to merge with a good. My alliance had this problem initially, we used to allow everyone to join. New players used to come and then became inactive after a few weeks, and then every time someone new joined we had teach them everything from the beginning, initially it was fun but then later on we started to feel that we were just wasting our times. That we started posting minimum requirements and trophy levels, just to make sure that the players were serious enough to reach that particular level but still learning. After that we had some very good recruits from the forums. In few months we went from 6 star titans to 9 star titan, and currently we have members who are quite active daily and are willing to put in the effort. Our alliance now ranges from TP 4200-2700, with avg around 3500. :slight_smile:

The last time I calculated, our alliance TP average is about 3350. Lowest just below 3k, highest just above 3700. None above 4k because we have no big spenders, and those who have been lucky enough to pull multiple 5* heroes haven’t been playing long enough yet to max them. I would only consider a merger with an alliance where the majority of members were around the same levels. Higher level players are a flight risk because they might decide that they’re “too good” to be “dragged down” by a weaker alliance, when they could easily switch to a higher level alliance killing 12* titans. Lower level players are both a liability (low titan hits, weak war defense teams that will give up more points than they can possibly recover with their unleveled war flags) as well as also being flight risks because they haven’t been playing long enough to prove their overall long term reliability…

I’m not actively seeking a merger, I’m just wondering whether or not I should consider the idea should such a proposition ever come up. All the experts on this forum seem to agree that the best route to getting better loot is by killing higher level titans, and I need more members to be able to do that, I’m just undecided on whether or not it’s worth it to potentially put my very happy, well coordinated, steadily growing, drama-free alliance in jeopardy for the prospect of potentially getting slightly better titan loot…

… though as I type that last sentence, I realize how ridiculous it sounds. No, it’s definitely not worth it.

Any potential merger would have to be a perfect match for me to even begin to consider it. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Well, all the best to you and I am sure whatever you end up doing will be in the best interests of your alliance :slight_smile:

Thanks, and you too!

I’ve been considering the idea for a while, after encountering multiple other small alliances in our alliance wars… some of them actively trying to recruit, others have leaders and co-leaders who have been inactive for 300+ days and they’re basically just ragtag teams with no real leadership structures, yet they’ve still managed to come together and kill titans and compete in wars…

Obviously some were more organized than others, some of our opponents were just downright sloppy and lazy and I wonder how they even managed to form an alliance in the first place, but occasionally we get a solid opponent who puts up a good enough fight to impress me, and I imagine the possibilities if both of our alliances were to team up together, assuming that we shared the same goals.

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My guess is that going from 15 members happy at 5* up to 30, you’d be happy around 7* or 8*.

There is a huge incentive to get up to 8* titans or, better yet, 9*. At 9* everyone (except the Ds) is getting Loot Tier IX or better, with 3 ascension mats each titan, instead of two. That increases you odds of getting rare mats by at least 50%. At 8*, the As and Bs get 3 mats, which is a nice incentive for people to push up to get B loot.

One thing to consider is that these two may be related, as well. Our alliance has no trouble with 8*s, takes down most of the 9*s we face, but hasn’t done much against the occasional 10* we get now and then. My previous alliance was hitting 4*s and rarely finishing 5*s. I’m near the bottom of my current alliance in terms of team power (fourth lowest defense team power out of 28 members, and those are my best heroes). So that was a huge jump in difficulty. I went from always running out of time to struggling to stay alive for 90 seconds, because all my 3* heroes get one-shot. I’ve done some hero leveling, and I use arrows religiously. I used to get mostly A’s. Now I can usually manage a B on the 8*s and a C on the 9*s (and hope that the rest of the team keeps it from escaping). But I have to use all my tickets, and extra flags from level ups, and a flask now and then.

I bring that up to say, if your alliance grows, and your titan level increases, you’ll want to educate your teammates that the difficulty of hitting the titans is going to increase dramatically. Your teammates that are below 3k, or in the low 3ks are going to struggle, because in order to stack, they’re going to have to bring several 3* heroes. I still have to for all color titans. I’m able to compete, especially against red and green titans, but I wanted to quit my current alliance at first after I realized how hard stronger titans were.

The thing is, my alliance’s primary focus is wars. Titans are kind of secondary (still important, but I’d rather win a war and let a titan escape than vice versa).

We’re only at 11 members. Better titan loot is always welcome. We’re getting closer to being able to regularly take on 6* titans vs. 5*, which is not great, but considering that we were stuck on 3* titans when we first started… I just don’t think it’s possible for us to get up past 7* or 8* titans without having more than 11 members, no matter how much each of our teams improve individually.

Yep, I understand that. The alliance I started in had close to 30 members and all of them together could barely take down a 5* titan. I consider it a badge of honor that my team of ragtag newbies are able to accomplish the same feat with roughly 1/3 the members. 5* titans were initially impossible for us, now they’re fairly easy as long as we use enough flags. The 6* though seem to be much stronger. I figure they will get easier as our lower level members level up to the point of being able to match (or even beat) my average scores, but it also wouldn’t hurt to have a few more members. And I think eventually, no matter how good we each get individually, I don’t think it’s even possible for 11 people to kill a 12* titan, at least not without guzzling a few cases of titan flasks. :thinking:

Hey, I am searching for a list of titan health variation. Something like this:

1* := 120.000, 140.000, …

4* := 1.300.000, 1.560.000, …

8* := 2.200.000, 2.360.000, …

Can anyone help?

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