[Play style] No fourth Training camp level 20 or Training camps 3x level 20 and 1x level 11 due to recruits from Atlantis Rising

[Gryphonknight]

[Play style] No fourth Training camp level 20 or Training camps 3x level 20 and 1x level 11 due to recruits from Atlantis Rising.

Background

Some heroes are good, some suck, most are okay.

But you cannot level 4* / 5* heroes you do not have.

In my opinion, you only want 3x Training camps level 20 and 1x Training camps level 11 due to recruits from Atlantis Rising ( AR )

4x Legendary training

4x Legendary training ( RT20) leaves you no camp for Extra low cost training ( RT11) during AR.

Legendary training and AR

Gryphonkit, my wife, always loses recruits during AR because she has nowhere to put them and no food.

4x Food Storage Level 20 plus Stronghold equals 2,766 k food.

900 recruits require 2,673 k food in Legendary training ( RT20).

After 900 recruits you have to wait for more food before stashing recruits in Legendary training ( RT20).

900 recruits is 120 world energy in AR.6-9N . Or 20 hours of world energy not including world energy flasks.

9x Farms Level 20 plus Watchtower level 20
produced approximately 62 k food per hour or approximately 1,488 k food per day.

This is another 500 recruits per 24 hours.

500 recruits is 67 world energy in AR.6-9N . Or 11.19 hours of world energy not including world energy flasks.

So many players can run out of food to put recruits in Legendary training ( RT20) during AR.

1x Extra low cost training

By leaving my fourth camp at level 11, I would always have Extra low cost training ( RT11), to stash AR recruits.

After AR, I can get food to transfer the recruits to Legendary training ( RT20 ).

3x Legendary training ( RT20) consumes 150 recruits, and 445.5 k food per day.

Flasks during AR

World energy flasks make the above food to recruit ratio even worse during AR, making Extra low cost training ( RT11 ) even more useful.

Fourth Training camp level 20

Raising my fourth training camp to level 20 is my only regret about my base building.

Notes

Click for notes

@Gryphonknight

Even for F2P, having 1x RT11 to store recruits is very handy. So 4x TC20 is a waste of iron.

@Gryphonknight

Legendary recruit training

Running 2x or 3x Legendary training ( RT20 ) early is very important. Very good source of 4* heroes.

You cannot level heroes you do not have. ( yes, duplicates suck. Yes, camps are designed to get you to spend on IAP for summons ).

Big spenders only need Guaranteed rare ( RT12 ) for hoarding food. Super big spenders only need Extra low cost ( RT11 ) for hoarding recruits.

@Gryphonknight

Lodge is similar to forges. My forges sat at Level 5x4 until

@Gryphonknight

Stronghold 21 Implementation

If I was starting the game today, I would only upgrade 1x Forge Level 17, 1x House Level 20, and 2x Training Camps Level 20 since most of the tiny benefits from 4x Forge Level 20, 4x House Level 20 and 4x Training camps Level 20 are lost with the way the Devs implementated the new Stronghold 21.

FIN

[yelnats_24]

@Gryphonknight

891 k food per day

Are you sure it is not half of it?

[FrenziedEye]

If you use AR exclusively to level heroes or
If you farm vigorously during AR

You are right

But I don’t farm that vigorously tbh and I can get by with 4 TC20s.

[Bud]

Early in this game, I would often argue against four tc20, but the c2p/f2p players showed their need for this base no matter that it could create problems with leveling. This was, of course, before season two.

Now, players are using AR to stock up on practice swords, back packs and rugged clothes only to wind up with too many recruits along with more lower level ascension materials than they need.

I am guessing here, but it strikes me there is a point where things start to back up. How many maxed 3* heroes do you need once you have all the S1 heroes in duplicate. And, eventually, all the S1 4s. All the while tc20s are churning out heroes, players are accumulating recruits in the hope of training a 5. And then another. And another.

How often do you have multiple 5* heroes which are not dupes and with the necessary 3* and 4* mats? Not that often is another guess.

I did drop the lede here. My message is players need to be aware that farming Atlantis rising should be targeting crafting materials.

Strengthening your roster to the point you hit titans hard enough to reach titan loot tier IX goes hand in hand with producing 4* battle items. And this is your prime source of ascension materials. They are needed for events too which produce emblems as well as AMs.

Sorry, this got so long, but I’m old and tired.

[Benn]

@Bud

Strengthening your roster to the point you hit titans hard enough to reach titan loot tier IX goes hand in hand with producing 4* battle items.

Not to go too far off topic, but what items are you talking about in regards to titans? I can’t imagine needing anything beyond arrows and antidotes to get a B on an 8* titan or a C on a 9*.

@Bud

Also, stop chasing back packs. Practice swords are far more efficient. Training 20 feeders in tc1 produces 0.094exp per ham vs a tc2 producing 0.055exp per ham.

Back on topic - those numbers are wrong and misleading.

They are wrong because they assume 150exp / TC1 feeder and 110exp / TC2 feeder. A TC1 feeder averages 156exp, and a TC2 feeder averages 281exp. Food costs are 1600 vs. 2000. Your math is way off.

Your comparison is misleading, because the real expense in leveling heroes is not training feeders, but feeding them to the hero. Here’s what it currently costs me to feed one hero to Kingston:

So even if it were cheaper to train TC1 feeders vs. TC2 feeders, you’re paying five times as much food to feed your 5* as you did to create that feeder. The training cost becomes negligible the higher level hero you’re feeding. If you’re trying to save food, your goal should be to use as few heroes as possible to level up (just like with leveling troops).

[Bud]

Have not gone through all…but yes I should not have a beer before doing math. I used 5000 ham from obviously faulty memory.

My very bad.

Will reply to full after a rest.

[Ranger07]

What level do you recommend to farm during AR?

[yelnats_24]

Depends on what you aim for, if it is Atlantis Coins then 13-1 Hard, but that place is not good for farming other resources. You should farm in Normal stage for resources…

[Guvnor]

I farm 2-1-2 for backpacks and recuits

[ffphier]

15-9N gives about 30 recruits per 4we
6-9N is about 20 per 3we

I usually have the best success with backpacks in 1-2,1-9 or 1-10

[JussufSegelbaer]

I run 2 TC20 and 2 TC11, feed the 1* to the 4* and the 2* to the 5*, by that I am leveling 10 heroes at the same time in a fair pace and never run out of food or recruits. Works for me, at the moment I have 20 maxed 4/5* working on 10 and by finishing them I will continue on replacing 4* by 5* or on some projects like Tiburtus or Gormek.

[Benn]

No problem, I find my math is off sometimes even with a full night of rest. The other day I had to delete a lengthy post after I realized my whole argument was based on numbers that were off by an order of magnitude. I didn’t think you meant to post the wrong thing, just didn’t want it to spread.

[Gryphonknight]

Loot tier 9+

@Bud

Strengthening your roster to the point you hit titans hard enough to reach titan loot tier IX goes hand in hand with producing 4* battle items.

I use only 1* / 2* Battle items, and Harpoons, on Titans.

Before my retirement, I had no trouble getting A score on 8* Titans and Loot tier 9+ on one of my accounts.

Class quests

I used to use 3* / 4* ingredients to make Dragon attacks and Bomb attacks for class quests.

But have been very successful using 1* / 2* battle items only plus harpoons. ( see notes )

Merciless RNG

But the above account ran 3x Legendary training for 3x months to get my last Classic 4* hero ( purple Cyprian ) after much trying other ways ( see notes ).

Challenge events

@Bud

They are needed for events too which produce emblems as well as AMs.

You should get plenty of 3* / 4* ingredients during AR while also farming recruits ( see notes)

Before my retirement, I regularly completed all three tiers for challenge events.

Notes

Click for notes

Harpoons and class quests

@Gryphonknight

Harpoon

Harpoon only effects target, but does 750

damage.

So

5x Harpoon does 3,750 damage compared to

5x Bombs attacks AND 5x Dragon attacks, doing 3,500 damage.

Bomb attacks, and Dragon attacks, effect all 3x bosses, but require 3* / 4* ingredients.

Harpoon only requires 1* ingredients.

Linchpin Boss

Trials of Fortitude, and Trials of Piety, are winnable with all healer teams if you can take out the healing boss.

3* / 4* ingredients

@BarryWuzHere

Increased chances” aren’t as impressive as they sound. For normal levels, that is twice the odds … at the expense of other 3* crafting items and hard levels are triple … again at the expense of other 3* items.

@BarryWuzHere

If you want to use different categories of battle items than I do, your choices will be different. With these priorities in hand, I sorted things by category and looked for ingredient conflicts, and noted them, at least on the item(s) I’m less likely to make:

Last 4* hero

@Gryphonknight

purple 4* Cyprian Quest

On one account we have been chasing purple 4* Cyprian for years.

Gem summons since 2017-September

= hundred to thousands $ USD ( iTunes combines family amounts)

[iOS, Apple] When did I start Empires and how much did I spend?

Our family’s combined entertainment spending, for all accounts, is currently at a combined $3,000 USD and combined 4.5 man years. We have seriously reduced

1x Legendary training 2018-March

= 19.3 months

3x Legendary training 2019-July

= 2x 3.3 months

= 25.9 months of Legendary training

2019-October-12

purple 4* Cyprian ( last classic 4* hero. FINALLY !!! )

This could have been Wu Kong, Rigard, Melendor, Grimm, Scarlett or Boldtusk instead of Cyprian. Boril was also difficult on this account.

Merciless RNG is awful.

So I would rather hoard than try and acquire them again. Gambler’s Stance, Ramming Pulverizer and Healing always good for war/ future trading.

FIN

[Gryphonknight]

@Benn

Back on topic - those numbers are wrong and misleading.

You are not wrong.

But depends on your situation.

@Gryphonknight

For players who wish to level a 5* hero using both, one strategy is to use Extra fast ( RT19 ) until you are 50% to max level, then switch to Uncommon ( RT02 ).

Use Extra fast training ( RT19 )

5* 1.1 to 1.25
5* 2.1 to 2.30
5* 3.1 to 3.35
5* 4.1 to 4.40

This works because food doubles from level 1 to maximum level, for each tier ( see notes )

[Gryphonknight]

@yelnats_24

half of it?

Argh.

Thanks.

Fixed.

[Gryphonknight]

@Ranger07

farm during AR?

some links

@BarryWuzHere is a god

Includes Rare elemental wanted mission chests, and Avatar missions, during Atlantis Rising.

(Barry Farmz Here -- Comprehensive data driven farming guide for Season 3, Season 2, Season 1, Elemental Chests, Atlantis Rises, Missions, and more)

Loot tickets

(Recruits, Atlantis rising, VIP pass loot tickets and It's Raining Loot Tickets!- Coin rate is unknown- Updated with best Kits/ Backpack stages - Average 100 dragons per 6,000 WE)

[Ranger07]

This response is super helpful, thank you!

[Rigs]

I’ve never ran more than 1 tc20

Typically run:

2 tc11s, 1 tc20, 1 tc2

Tc20 is bout to become tc12 since i dont need anymore s1 5s

[Gryphonknight]

Waiting for Cyprian

@Rigs

Tc20 is bout to become tc12 since i dont need anymore s1 5s

Congrats on your luck!

Even spending a decent amount of money on summons, purple 4* Cyprian eluded me for 2 years. I have 637x Paladin emblems for Cyprian once I get Cyprian to 4* 4.70 .

While running 3x Legendary training ( RT20 ), waiting for Cyprian to arrive, I finally pulled Magni and Sartana.

1x Legendary training

That account is back to 1x Legendary training ( RT20 ) but still missing Lianna and Richard.

Once I get Lianna it will be tempting to switch my 1x Legendary training ( RT20) to 1x Guaranteed rare ( RT12 ). But my hopes for Hero Academy means I will probably just save duplicate 5* heroes from my camp.

Notes

Click for notes

Guaranteed rare

@Gryphonknight

Use Guaranteed rare ( RT12 ) to store food, and recruits, until you unlock Legendary training ( RT20 ). See above hoards.

@Gryphonknight

Hoarding food

([Math] Comparing Recruit training- Guaranteed rare vs Elite vs Legendary Training for food storage, XP and generating heroes [Hoarding, XP ] )

FIN

[IvyTheTerrible]

Great stuff, very thorough, as always!

I know you saw that I was considering pushing all my TC to 20 in another thread. I should have been more clear: my plan would be to level them all up to 20 but then NOT run them all at 20. I would likely run basically what I’m running now: 20, 11, and 2 flex (currently at 2 since I have a bazillion backpacks from the last Atlantis Rises event).

Part of the reason I’d go to 20 is because of OCD, but mostly it’s on the off-chance that an Advanced Training Camp is introduced. If we are ever able to train troops I want to immediately convert as much of my infrastructure to doing that as possible. I don’t think that’s the most likely troop training location, but I’m still willing to roll the dice.