Marjana Comparison

[Muchacho]

Hey all!

I really enjoyed doing my previous comparison with costume Chao and Gretel to show how effective costume Chao could be for mana control.

Costume Chao Comparison

Hey all! Caution: wall of text (with some pics) about heroes not high on people priority list. This what happens when I got bored and nerd on out. I was excited last costume chamber to get Chao’s costume. Mana control is a huge part of the game and the vanilla options are very meh at the 4* level. I am a F2P but was fortunate enough to get one of the special mana controllers over the years in Gretel. That was game changing for me . In reading Chao’s card it seemed like…

I also did one for Zulag and Quintus a while back but couldn’t find it. Hopefully some people got some use from them. It was much less formal.

I had inspiration for another I wanted to do involving Marjana. The caveat was I don’t have Marjana. Great idea on my part, right? . I did get assistance from others on this comparison who do have Marjana. While I am only going to use base model photos in this report, here is a link to the thread that people posted the other versions of Marjana with costume bonus, various degrees of emblems, etc. Even though I wanted to keep this condensed, that information is just as valuable:

Maxed Marjana Assistance

Hey all! I have been talking to some fellow gamers who were wondering about Marjana’s effectiveness as a sniper. I have seen it as a somewhat recurring theme over time here too. I wanted to do a comparison similar to what I did for costume Chao: Admittedly I do this more for me than “popular “ demand . Anyways, one CRITICAL issue I have is that I do NOT have Marjana. Minor, yet critical … I have people that can help with costume bonus and emblemed screen shots, but not base m…

This shows how great this community is and the help you can get from strangers, yet fellow enthusiasts, if you simply ask. A big thank you to @Kikyo @Ruskin505 @SamMe @Whitey @Noble_Weasel @sleepyhead @jinbatsu @Ultra @Shohoku79 for their willingness to help with this effort.

Apologies, I didn’t want to forget thanking those who helped first and foremost. To the point at hand: Is Marjana worth the rings?

This is a common question I have seen on the boards. What made this particularly interesting after giving it some thought is this is a fair question for both the P2P crowd and the F2P crowds given the availability of red snipers. While red has some truly phenomenal heroes worthy of rings they only had Marjana for sniping for a very long time. This did finally change when we were offered Gefjon. Gefjon is obviously very limited availability.

One knock against Marjana was also the comparison to other snipers such as Joon, Magni, Lianna, etc. While she does have the benefit of DoT to increase her damage output while avoiding enemy hero D, her base damage from impact was below those heroes. This is what begged the question of is she worth those ever so precious rings given how good other reds are? The other question though is if you’re not one of the lucky few to have Gefjon, what is your alternative to red sniping?

Side note: The ring issue is not a problem if you’re named Muchacho because this game hates giving you red 5’s. I digress … bitterly, but still digress.

I thought to myself how close is base Marjana with the emblemed Kelile I have? There is the stigma of 4’s versus 5’s, but my Kelile is +19 so essentially a base value 5*. This is a fair comparison then if you’re considering burning (pun intended, you’re welcome) rings to max Marjana but don’t intend to emblem her, or emblem her lightly. Competition for red 5’s is tough enough, I won’t get into how tough it can be for 5* rogue emblems . I never had Marjana but never felt a need because Kelile performed so well, so I wanted to see the real numbers to see how much was in my head.

Base Marjana:

Here is Kelile +19 full A path:

Looking at stats alone their not far off. D value has a slight edge to Kelile, HP has a sizable advantage to Marjana, and A value has a sizable advantage to Kelile.

How I interpret that is actually an overall win for Kelile.

• Neither are durable. Marjana is slightly more due to HP, but Kelile in this form benefits from evade over base Marjana. The argument can certainly be made that you would sacrifice some HP to have hits miss altogether.

• Kelile’s A value advantage is more beneficial. They both stand a fair chance of dying given their durability. Marjana’s HP bonus, while potentially keeping her alive longer is of no value when she is dead. Kelile’s big tile damage boost is given even after death. Not factoring evade, weaker tiles with a hero living potentially through one more hit isn’t as valuable as stronger tiles given the relatively low difference in survivability.

The question becomes how many more tile hits do you get or specials Marjana gets off after Kelile died. There are WAY too many scenarios for me to play that out. Zero motivation here for that, but if someone wants to run with that be my guest.

This will vary by player and roster for sure.

Then to compare them I had everyone play the same stage with the same troop so everything was apples to apples. We played season 3, province 1, stage 4, normal:

For comparison purposes I chose a troop anyone would have or be able to get if the red troops they’re leveling just feasted:

Both heroes are fast mana so that is a non factor in comparing. They are both rogues, so they would use the same emblems, but only Kelile benefits from the class effect.

On to the results!

Base damage from Marjana:

Followed by her DoT:

Base damage of 469. If the DoT of 54/turn for 6 turns is allowed to play out, that is an additional 324 for a total of 793. I won’t dwell on DoT bypassing D value, etc. as both heroes have that.

It essentially takes Marjana having the full DoT effect to match the other 5* snipers mentioned above. Very situational how often that happens. Anyways, we’re not comparing that right now.

Base damage from Kelile:

Followed by her DoT:

Base damage of 373. If the DoT of 76/turn for 6 turns is allowed to play out, that is an additional 456 for a total of 829.

I was surprised how close this was. Marjana starts out ahead on raw damage by 93 points. Kelile than closed in, and eventually passes, Marjana with 22 extra damage/turn. The break point is then on the 5th turn of DoT.

Given the same mana speed, class, and skills this is an easy comparison to do, but I did not appreciate how close the numbers were. While this can differ based on roster and play style, I really think that Kelile is the better choice based on:

• Saving your rings.
• Relative ease of getting hidden blades
• Lower cost in resources (ham, feeders, etc.)
• Lower use of emblems if you have better 5* rogues to get to +18-20.

To me what puts her over the top is the greater benefit in tile damage, even after death, versus the benefit of having 369 more HP. That HP bonus is reduced further considering the evade benefit Kelile gets.

If you’re strapped on rings, or selective of who gets them, and don’t intend to emblem Marjana I would REALLY urge consideration towards embleming a Kelile to do the job you were considering Marjana for. Likewise, Kelile probably shouldn’t be getting all the neglect and hate she gets on the forums. Every hero can have their use.

If you are intending to emblem Marjana she obviously pulls further ahead. To see how many talents to give her to get the difference between the two heroes you want please follow to link above where other gracious forum members posted picks of their emblemed Marjana’s.

Anyways, hope this helped at least someone found it as interesting as I did seeing the hard numbers.

Thanks (wow?) for making it this far and good luck out there!

[Raghadorn]

An awesome post! Thanks for taking the time to work out the math behind it all.

I’ll add another plus for Kelile is that pulling her costume from the chamber is a lot (LOT) more likely than Marj’s. A costumed, emblemed Kelile would be that much better.

[Muchacho]

Thanks @Raghadorn I am glad it was helpful. Fair point bringing up costumes and costume bonuses. Truth be told if you had costumes for both it’s a no brainer for Marjana. Elemental drop is too hard to pass up.

Another comparison that would be interesting to see how much they compare would be if you took the number of emblems it takes to get Kelile to +19, 435 I believe, and applied them to Marjana, so you’re comparing same numbers of emblems, how different they are. It should get you to +7. Granted, you’re still out 6 rings. Would Marjana +7 vs Kelile +19 create a larger enough benefit between the two to warrant 6 rings?

Be curious is anyone has a Marjana +7 and is willing to take those same screen shots.

EDIT:

@Whitey had the Marjana:

Perhaps he can find time to get the screen shots? Perhaps @Ruskin505 can get some shots when he gets around to resetting his?

Purely by stats I am not sure it sways enough one way or the other for my tastes.

[Raghadorn]

I will say that Marj’s larger hit point pool does mean she’ll stick around longer, and that can mean she’ll be around to fire again.

I really like the idea of using Kelile in Marjana’s stead, but 1035 HP… that’s a single sniper shot…

[Muchacho]

Certain snipers could take Marjana out too though and her D is lower. A benefit to Kelile is she can waste specials with evade too.

There isn’t a clear winner, it’s personal preference. I think it is closer than most realize though which what I wanted to show and with how hard rings are to get …

[Chadmo]

Great comparison! I have Marj at 3-70, just better options keep coming up. Also have Costume Kelli maxed but rogue emblems at to precious to give to her. Love the numbers and all the work you and your helpers put into this.

Bravo!!

[IgH]

A few other things that could be useful considerations:

• Kelile’s Costume: being much more accessible than Marjana’s, many players who have both snipers will have a costume for Kelile but none for Marjana
• Emblems on Marjana: they are both rogues, so for the same emblems it takes to get Kelile to +18, you could have Marjana at +7

[Rduke77]

Yeah, was going to post this…he is missing the apples to apples on the emblems. Kelile is quite underrated and is a great 4* sniper though at her max potential just compares to Marjana at her base level. Max emblems on Marjana? Different leagues.

[Muchacho]

Thanks @Chadmo , kind of you to say, glad you enjoyed it.

@IgH

A few other things that could be useful considerations:

• Kelile’s Costume: being much more accessible than Marjana’s, many players who have both snipers will have a costume for Kelile but none for Marjana
• Emblems on Marjana: they are both rogues, so for the same emblems it takes to get Kelile to +18, you could have Marjana at +7

Thanks for the feedback. True and that was brought up by @Raghadorn in the first reply. My response (message 3) shows a Marjana +7 as a card to card comparison. If someone is able to do screen shots for damage that would be cool, but based on the stat increase I don’t think a Marjana +7 dramatically skews the original proportions of the comparison.

@Rduke77

he is missing the apples to apples on the emblems.

Thanks for responding. I never meant to compare those. A +20 4* is never going to match a +20 5*. That’s fine, they shouldn’t. If you want to see those stats the link above has people who posted +18 and +20 Marjana’s. It is a great resource to see a lot of the in between too.

This was more situational towards the people debating if they should use precious rings to max Marjana. Also to show if they do max her, but don’t emblem her, what that looks like. It was a hopefully helpful comparison to highlight a common issue I have seen posted and a potential solution with an easily accessible alternative.

Kelile is not a straight replacement for Marjana, especially a Marjana with emblems. If you’re wavering on rings and need a sniper until then, you have a viable option using less resources. Kelile could always be reset too to load Marjana when someone is too that point.

All roster dependent.

EDIT: Just grammar from typing on my phone originally with fat thumbs

[Ruskin505]

I’ve got Marjana at +18 and Kelile at +0 with no costume, but not enough food and iron to do the reset.

I had not previously thought of Kelile being compatible to Marjana, so appreciate the mind bending. I would be interested what you plan on doing six months from now or so. I imagine you don’t have many better Rogues than the eventual Marjana you’ll get.

[Muchacho]

All good @Ruskin505 , no need to reset at all for this. You can always circle back whenever too when you do get to it.

As for my rogues, it is hard to say. At 4* Jackal, Kelile, and Scarlett are all +19. I am currently doing Domitia as the alternative is Danzaburo. He is fun and all from time to time, pretty underrated truthfully, but still that’s not close.

Not sure what I’ll do when I get Marjana. She has eluded me for over 3 years so I do consider it an “if” over “when” . I think Domitia would trump Marjana until she is +18. Then, assuming I don’t have a better rogue, I would stockpile emblems and start Marjana. Probably get her to +10 or so right away when maxed with stockpiled emblems and Kelile reset. That would bring her instantly to a point of greater strength.

No hurry though, Kelile has been working great for years. I love her and hope I get her costume soon. Until I have the emblems (and the hero ) for a Marjana I am in no rush to ditch and reset Kelile as, based on above, they are pretty comparable. One is just much less resources. Gap closes with a costume on Kelile too.

[rho]

Costumes add another level of complexity to ascension choices. I’m lucky in that I have both Marjana and Kelile’s costumes, and both of them are at +18 so I’ll throw in my perspective.

If you have Marjana’s costume, throw some rings at her asap because she’s worth every one of them. This one is truly a no-brainer, elemental defense down at fast speed with a very decent snipe+splash damage (358% + minor) pushes Marjana into another tier. In fact I like the costume so much I actually leveled a second copy (base at 4/1), and I can’t remember the last time I used the base form (maybe for a trial or two). Her elemental defense debuff pairs extremely well with any red AoE, herself included. If you then throw in an attack buff on top (from BT for example), you’re pretty much guaranteed to kill 3 heroes in just 9 red tiles provided no dodge/evade stuff happens.

If you have Kelile’s costume, max out the costume asap because she becomes a mini JF minus all the fancy defense flip stuff. I actually emblemed my Kelile for the costume side as she does much more overall damage, taking all but one attack node (I didn’t want to neuter the base version too much). In this form she does 326 burn damage over 2 turns, 368 if factoring in a lv 1 attack troop, which becomes an eye popping 442 burn damage over 2 turns with the hidden 20% buff on defense. That’s some serious burn damage at the 4* level and at fast speed no less.

[sleepyhead]

lovely thought exercise, @Muchacho ! definitely gonna be very helpful for those early/mid-game players who are struggling over whether to pull the trigger. Thanks for sharing with the community!

[Slobix]

Here are my comparisons of Marjana+7 and Kelile+19 CB.

Marjana:

Kelile:

[rho]

Here’s a Marjana+18 and Kelile+18 side by side; Kelile is missing one attack node so theoretical max attack is 834, which is actually slightly higher than Marjana lol

Atk and def stats are actually quite similar, with Marjana obviously being way tankier with 562 more HP and also a much bigger initial hit due to the 458% vs 320% multiplier. However this does highlight that Kelile in this state is fully usable for titans, and is a good standby hero for mythic titans.

[Muchacho]

Thanks for sharing @rho and @Slobix .

If you two wanted to run your numbers with those heroes with the same troops and stage referenced above I would be more than happy to edit the original post to include them.

I think keep Kelile as having costume bonus rather than in costume in order to maintain an even comparison.

The more information the better. Especially when spending rings.

[shelbo]

Good stuff! As a side note, you could do one of these for C. Wu Kong vs. Sir Roostley and make a similar case for C. Wu…

[Muchacho]

Thanks @shelbo , glad you liked it.

I am sure I will do another at some point when I have my next epiphany or a quandary pop into my head.

@shelbo

C. Wu Kong vs. Sir Roostley

Unfortunately this one seems unlikely in the near future as I don’t have either . Asking for help with one hero was a big enough ask for both, not even going near asking for help with both.

[Whitey]

…my 2 cents to this comparison:
I have 4 Marjana’s at +7 and one more maxed soon (to be honest it will take a while because i got Yang Mai and now leveling her).
I always use my Marjana’s in combination with other heros. With Boldtusk, Zimmy, Wilbur, Guardian Falcon and so on. Then there is a much bigger gap between 458% vs 320% hits. And a team is always 5 heroes.

[Muchacho]

Thanks for the response @Whitey. There are absolutely 5 heroes per team and the synergy between them out weighs the individual heroes. That being said these two are filling the same role within a team so the comparison is still viable.

The numbers will skew proportionally to the boosts in buffs. +48% A with BT, shared damage with Wilbur, etc. That being said the difference would be relatively minor. The attack percentages of the specials are pretty different but the A values of each hero are also different (in the opposite direction) resulting in a difference not as great as the raw percentages of the specials suggest. That’s all outlined above, so I won’t repeat it.

I will guess the biggest matter causing this to be less useful is the fact you have so many maxed Marjana’s with emblems. She is likely not your only rogue with emblems nor your only maxed red 5* if I had to guess. This won’t be a comment on if it’s right or wrong to pay to play, that is subjective with the only right answer being for each individual player, but I am guessing you have spent which gives you the benefit of added in game resources over those who haven’t.

Obviously if I had the in game resources to keep maxing Marjana’s over Kelile I would. That being said the comparison is for those who don’t have that, which I believe is the majority of players within the game (even if not the forum), to show if you’re deciding on rings on multiple heroes or something you can save them on Marjana and get by with Kelile and it’s still viable.

After 3+ years I still don’t have my first copy of Marjana so it is a matter of no alternative for me , but it also isn’t an alternative a miss having or feel a need for.

Good luck out there!