Leveling 3, 4 and 5 star heroes (Analysis, Advice)

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#1

Subject
Leveling 3, 4 and 5 star heroes (Analysis, Advice)

==Beginning Advice==
Team heroes are heroes you use for the map (world energy), raiding, or titans (alliance energy).
Once you have access to 2* heroes, from Low cost recruit training (recruit training level 4 or RT4), heroes that are 1* are not worth leveling.
Once you have access to 3* Heroes, from Elite recruit training (RT13), or a full 3* team from Epic summon tokens, heroes that are 2* are not worth leveling.

==Simple Advice==
To level your team’s 4* heroes, level them with heroes of the SAME color that are 1* or 2*.
To level your team’s 5* heroes, level them with heroes of the SAME color that are 1*.
To level your team’s 3* heroes you can use any hero of the SAME color, including Trainer Heroes (v1.8), but regular 1* and regular 2* are the best.
Use duplicate heroes to level the same hero on your teams. Example: use Graymane to level Graymane.

==Complex Advice==
To level your team’s heroes with 8/8 special skill (they have maximum special skill), level them with any hero of the SAME color, including Trainer Heroes (v1.8), but heroes from low cost recruit training, or extra low cost recruit training, are the cheapest for food and recruits.
To level your team’s 4* and 5* heroes that have reached Tier 3 of 4 (ascended twice) or 6/8 special skill, use any hero of the SAME color, including Trainer Heroes (v1.8), but regular 1* and regular 2* are the best.

==Data behind conclusions==

==Leveling time and costs (food, recruits)==
Using heroes of the SAME color that are 1* or 2* from extra low cost recruit training (recruit training level 11 or RT11) gives your team 2160+ XP per day per training camp. High XP per day per training camp is good. It costs 5.6k, or less, in food for +1000 XP. It costs 11.1 recruits, or less, in recruits for +1000 XP. Low food, and recruits, per +1000 XP is good.

==Skill Roll Math==
Each hero tier has a max level. Example: a 4* Hero, Tier 1 has a maximum level of 40. Until you get the ascension materials for the next tier, you cannot continue to level your 4* or 5* hero. Because of this you want the highest +% skill roll per 1000 XP.

Training with a 4* hero of the same color gives you 1080 XP and +8% skill roll.
Training with six 1* heroes of the same color gives you 180 XP x6= 1080 XP and +12% skill roll.
Random Number Generator (RNG) can still mess you up, but 1* heroes of the same color will raise your special skill much faster so you can enjoy 8/8 special skill much longer. 1* heroes will also give you a higher special skill while waiting to get ascension materials for the next tier of 4* and 5* heroes.

This is less important for 3* heroes since their ascension materials are easier to get. But 1* heroes are still best for skill rolls.

Note: The exception are duplicate heroes. Leveling a hero with a duplicate of itself gives you a +25% skill roll per duplicate. So four duplicate heroes give you a 100% chance of the special skill increasing.

==Skill Roll Complex Math==
Using heroes of the SAME color that are 1* or 2* gives your 4* or 5* hero +8.54% skill roll / 1000 XP, or higher. If you level your team’s heroes using heroes of a different color that are 4* you only get +4.44% skill roll / 1000 XP meaning your special skill will be 52% as high as using same color and 1* or 2* for leveling your team’s heroes (this is a simplification for comparison purposes).

[Edit: adding data from v1.9 Trainer Heroes]

==Recruit Training costs, XP gain and skill roll gain==

==Extra low cost recruit training==
Using extra low cost training camp (RT11)
2 recruits, 1k food, 12 per day

1* other color =
150 XP ( 6.7k food / 1k XP, 13.3 recruits / 1k XP )
+1% skill roll ( +6.66% skill roll / 1k XP )
1800 XP / day for team

1* same color =
180 XP ( 5.6k food / 1k XP, 11.1 recruits / 1k XP )
+2% skill roll ( +11.11% skill roll / 1k XP )
2160 XP / day for team

2* other color=
390 XP ( 2.6k food / 1k XP, 5.12 recruits / 1k XP)
+2% skill roll ( +5.12% skill roll / 1k XP )
1800+ XP / day for team (ratio to 1* heroes is unknown)

2* same color=
468 XP ( 2.1k food / 1k XP, 4.27 recruits / 1k XP)
+4% skill roll ( +8.54% skill roll / 1k XP )
2160+ XP / day for team (ratio to 1* heroes is unknown)

==Guaranteed rare recruit training==
Using guaranteed rare training camp (RT12)
45 recruits, 164k food, 0.5 per day

3* other color=
630 XP ( 260k food / 1k XP, 71 recruits / 1k XP)
+3% skill roll ( +4.76% skill roll / 1k XP )
315 XP / day for team

3* same color=
756 XP ( 216k food / 1k XP, 59 recruits / 1k XP )
+6% skill roll ( +7.93% skill roll / 1k XP )
378 XP / day for team

==Elite recruit training==
Using elite training camp (RT13)
70 recruits, 265k food, 0.5 per day

4* other color=
900 XP ( 294k food / 1k XP, 77.77 recruits / 1k XP )
+4% skill roll ( +4.44% skill roll / 1k XP )
315+ XP / day for team (ratio to 3* heroes is unknown)

4* same color=
1080 XP ( 245k food / 1k XP, 64.81 recruits / 1k XP )
+8% skill roll ( +7.40% skill roll / 1k XP )
378+ XP / day for team (ratio to 3* heroes is unknown)


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#2

Two of my 4* Heroes have reached 8/8 special skill (Note 1):

Grimm 4* Blue reached 8/8 at 3.35
Scarlett 4* Red reached 8/8 at 3.50

Most likely an outlier (fluke), hero Wu Kong 4* Yellow is already 6/8 special skill at 2.4 (yes that is tier 2, level 4). [Edit: Darn it. During an event summons I got a second Wu Kong which raised the special skill to 7/8. Wu Kong reaching 7/8 and 8/8 is now are now invalid data points for this experiment. But he did reach 6/8 using mostly 1* with a few 2*][Edit 2: just of the record, Wu Kong reached 8/8 at 2.40 being leveled with any color and any star hero after 7/8. Coincidentally, 8/8 was a 1* yellow hero].

Note 1)
My wife feeds her favorite 4* heroes all colors, all stars and immediately uses her Trainer Heroes. Part of this post is to avoid some of her angst. The second part is larger research into training camps.


How much have you spent?
#3

I think you may have it backwards?

3* is 1* heroes on color (this is the manner to ensure best chance of skilling up)
4* is sort of whatever
5* is whatever, if you have the ascension items to get to 70 you will almost assuredly cap the skill unless astoundingly unlucky


#4

There are many different leveling strategies. I crunched the numbers to decide on mine (see topic post).

==Special Skill Buffs & Debuff==
Personally, I don’t see the advantage to having hero Grimm (4* blue) at 4/8 special skill (-26% defense debuff) or 6/8 (-30% defense debuff) at 3.50 when they could be 8/8 (-34% defense debuff). It seems like the more powerful special skills of a 5* hero would be even more useful at 8/8 early in the 5* hero’s leveling up.

3* are a special case. Since you have many ways of gaining a 3* hero (Epic Hero Tokens, recruit training level 13 & 20, the rare 3* daily summons/ summons token), it is much easier to use a dupe (+25% skill roll) than for 4* or 5* heroes. My Friar Tuck (3* green) was 6/8 at max tier, max level (3.50) but only required 3 dupes to get 8/8.

Each person’s taste varies, but you can stop using my strategy (see topic post) at any time. Sometimes space in your hero roster, spare heroes from event summons, and other factors will come into play. Personally once I hit 8/8 on a special skill I use any thing to level up the hero, though matching colors still nets the most XP (especially for Trainer Heroes).

==Artificial restriction of ascension items==
Ascension items do two things, restrict max level and restrict special skill. It is interesting the Devs added the ability to keep leveling a max tier, max level hero, but only until the special skill is 8/8.

My Hawkmoon (3* red) is 4/8 special skill at 2.24 but already has 122/ 2 leather armor, 142/ 3 arcane scrips, and 150/ 2 sharpening stones for her last ascension. While I am short on all ascension items for Grimm (4* Blue), Scarlett (4* Red), Rigard (4* Purple), Kashhrek (4* Green), Wu Kong (4* Yellow), Thoth-Amun (5* HotM Purple) and Perseus (5* HotM Blue). The Devs seem to have designed stars, tiers and levels so damage from matching shields on the board is more important for low star heroes (attack, defense, and HP), while special skill is more important for high star heroes (reduce attack, reduce defense, raise the dead, etc). So I don’t mind having a 2* or 3* hero with a low special skill. While I like having Grimm’s Ramming Pulverizer at -34% defense debuff (8/8) instead of -20% defense debuff (1/8). This seems to be backed up by the Devs adding the option to continue leveling my maximum level, 3.50, Friar Tuck with a 6/8 special skill but forcing me to ascend my tier 3, max level (3.60) Grimm before letting me continue to level Grimm.

Hi Devs, feel free to add the option to continue leveling at any tier, I won’t miss buying hero roster slots to store Trainer Heroes until my matching hero is 8/8


#5

Glad I got all three heroes to 8/8 before 3.60 as I am now stuck waiting for ascension materials.

In a bit of irony, Wu Kong reached 8/8 at 2.40 but was too darn squishy for titans and raiding. Now that Wu Kong is higher level and can survive long enough to charge his special skill twice versus titans and while raiding, my Titan damage has tripled and I am going to see how high I can get in trophies with my 4* Heroes stuck at 3.60


[Research Math] True level of heroes & Total XP - Update 4-13
#6

Not as lucky with my purple and green
4* purple Rigard got stuck at 7/8 3.60 due to lack of ascension materials, but when I finally got to ascend him, raised it to 8/8 4.1

4* green Kashhrek was at 5/8 when I got Melendor, so I raised Kashhrek a few more level, and ascension to 3.1 to raise him to 6/8. I switch between Melendor and Kashhrek because Kashhrek is a tank and great against titans, while Melendor is squishy but has a higher attack stat, a heal all and a debuff all enemies so I use him for raids and farming 8-7.

4* green Melendor finally reached 8/8 at 2.38 so I was able to feed him all my 1* and 2* green Trainer heroes. At 3.22 he is still squishier than Kashhrek, so I might end up ascending Kashhrek to 4.1 eventually. Depends on how many Sturdy shields I get and how many green 4* and 5* heroes.


#7

Hello! I’m having a dilemma regarding upgrading few of my 3* cards of the same color. What I try to say is which one is more important to work on 1st.


#8

@Medail

Well the choice between the green cards is easy IMHO…Little John is better and is a 4* not a 3* :wink:

Personally, I don’t love either of your blue 3* heroes (not a fan of slow mana generators). However, if I had to, I would go with Ulmer for his increased attack stat.

The choices between any heroes really depends on a number of factors, most especially where and how they will be used.


#9

If you are using the blues in Event, I would go with Gunner, who has pulled my posterior out of the fire many times with his spirit link ability (which works more or less like a slow dmg shield).


#10

Thank you for the advice


#11

Sorry, I’m a bit confused… Is it better to do one 1* at a time or ten 1*s?


#12

I would suggest going 10 at a time, for then you wouldn’t have to constantly be upgrading. If you’re creating troops via the training camp, say lvl 11 “Extra Low Cost” then you’re getting one troop every two hours per training camp it doesn’t take long to get 10 troops, and the % chance for improving their skill goes up the more of the same colored troops you use.


#13

Practical Answer:
It does not matter if you use one 1* hero at a time or ten 1* heroes at a time because of the way skill rolls currently work in the game.

3* Heroes can easily get 3/8 special skill at max tier, max level no matter what you do. Same for 4* heroes that lack Tier 4 ascension materials and 5* heroes that lack Tier 3 ascension materials.

For players who care about statistics and RNG:


#14

So basically the odds are the same whether I use one hero to train or ten? Though I technically increase the odds of not getting it maxed if I use ten and don’t get it. I still don’t understand the math -_-


#15

Think of it this way

Part 1

1* Heroes give the best +% Skill roll per XP. Since your skill rolls are limited by how much XP a hero takes to level, 1* Heroes are the best ( there are special circumstances).

5* Heroes have the best special skills, you they are the most important to increase ( Note 1 )

Part 2
You have a week of vacation to finish a roof repair. You can leave work 1 hour early for 56 days ( roll one 1* hero ) or take the whole day for 1 week (batch of ten 1* heroes ).

You cannot work on the roof repair when the weather is bad ( fail your skill rating increase ). So leaving work early for 56 days gives you a better chance being able to work ( getting some increase ) Edit: because it is very unlikely to have a 56 day storm. But if you take the whole week off, and a 10 day storm shows up, you get zero work done ( no increase except ascension increases ) where it would have only ruined 10 hours if you had used the leave early option.

But the odds are better for 7 days in a row of good weather than 56 days in a row, so each individual day ( skill roll ) has a better chance of being good ( increasing the special skill ) with taking the whole day.

Basically the whole day decision ( batches of ten ) lumps a lot of your chances together for good or bad. Where leaving early ( batches of one ) spreads out your chances so you only miss the normal amount of days due to bad weather.

But even if the weather is really good all week or all 56 days, you may find unexpected damage and not have enough time to finish the repair before you run out of time ( you roll bad in batches of one or batches of ten and still get 3/8 3* 3.50 hero ).

Note 1)


#16

I love your illustration!


#18

Looking for advice. Is it worthwhile to sacrifice 3 star heroes to level up 4 or 5 star heroes, or even to level up other 3 star heroes?


#19

Maybe.

Either ask you alliance fellows about your exact roster or start a new topic on the forums. A lot depends on the heroes involved, the heroes you have, the level of your base, what rare quests you can complete and what titans you fight.

I can complete all rare quests and have five Gunnar ( 3* blue tanky tank with Spirit link ), if I get a six I will definitely use him to level the other five. Seriously considering winnowing them down to three since 3* heroes are so squishy compared to 4* and his offense is low, so not good for clean up in war.


#20

I’m levelling a Grimm currently, feeding only pack of 1 :star: and 2 :star: heroes (10x1 or 10x2) while feeding the other rainbow fodders to a fully maxed special hero.


#21

What is the star ratings for common, uncommon, rare, epic and ledgendary. Ive been trying to get a 3*red card but keep failing in my attempts. Do i have to be at a certain level to be able to train one?