🦉 Fulvia – 5* Fire / Red from Owl Tower

[Zack]

@u2371

What is the formula of the Moonrise Strike’s damage of the new owl heroes ?

According to my investigation on my Featherino 1-1 and Olbec 1-1 the formula is

Moonrise Strike damage = base damage / 1000 x (attack - defense) + base damage (round down)
with base damage = 50% of max damage

@u2371

And do you know the formula of the Moonrise Ward’s damage reduction from special skill of the new owl heroes ?

From my Paeia 1-1 I could derive nearly the same formula for the Moonrise Ward:

Moonrise Ward damage reduction = - base damage reduction / 1000 x (attack - defense) + base damage reduction (probably round down)
with base damage reduction = 50% x max damage reduction

The formula looks quite simple and adaptable to any owl hero, so I give it high chances that it is correct.
The data for Fulvia seems to fit with it as well.

[Valkyrie]

Disappointed with the mana cut skill, she has been leveled to 3/70. She’s benched, and I’m bringing Cookie back. At least he would be way more useful with the mana stopper on offense.

[NoRecesso]

I have her at 3/70. Very useful against holy heroes

Her healing decrease is also good

Not on my raid attack team or my defense but certainly have a spot for wars. Even with the bug she will be fully leveled as soon as I get the mats

[Zack]

So as the Moonrise Strike mechanic depends on the difference between the in-fight base attack and base defense, you want to

maximise this difference:

• emblem the owl hero for attack
• lb and lb2 for even higher attack
• use troops with high attack increases (like mana troops or even ninja troops)
• increase your in-fight base attack with growth from goblins
• decrease the targets in-fight base defense with wither from goblins

increase damage:

• use damage increasing buffs (e.g. Buster, Franz, Hammertusk, Snowball, Motega,…)
• target holy heroes
• switch heroes elements to holy with Guardian Chameleon and Fishloki

Moonrise Strike doesn’t care at all

• when the target has defense increasing buffs
• when you have attack decreasing ailments

The Moonrise Strike damage will always be in the range of the fixed min and max damage:

	Ommodus	Timius	Fulvia	Olbec	Featherino
attack at 4-80	986	1005	1032	724	571
lb2 attack	1246	1363	1370	?	?
min damage	425	375	310	255	175
base damage	850	750	620	510	350
max damage	1700	1500	1240	1020	700

The attack boosts and defense reductions from goblins will shift this toward max damage and provide some additional damage:

	Ommodus	Timius	Fulvia	Olbec	Featherino
'-40 defense from Boots	34	30	24	20	14
+100 attack from Goldie	85	75	62	51	35
'-160 defense from Fizzcoil	136	120	99	81	56
+180 attack from Darkfeather	153	135	111	91	63
'-225 defense from Acidfire	191	168	139	114	78
'-300 defense from Deadboot	255	225	186	153	105

Fulvia on attack team
With her -10% mana cut occuring after the defenders got their 100 MP at the end of their turn, you want to avoid throwing too many tiles into the affected targets.

If the targets mana is low, you can throw some tiles into them as long as this doesn’t completely fill their mana bars.

If the targets mana is high, you don’t throw any tiles into them. As the mana bars are not full, they can’t fire their specials. Then they only get mana (from specials and) at the end of their turn, but then it will be reduced by 10%, so next turn they still can’t fire, as long as you don’t throw tiles into them.

[2puttshaqur]

I want to say… You gotta really pay attention when you use her. And I think that is the problem. Most people just want a big hit. Aim and fire and dead… This lil lady requires in fight strategy.

[Blessed-I-Am]

Yes they can still fire there special that’s the problem everybody been having it’s not working the right way I like you math you are doing but it has to be a bug or something cause it’s not functioning the way you just said it should again the 10 percent needs to be slightly increased it they are going to leave it as ailment doesn’t work the same as a buff or reducing with minion different mechanic that they need to work on

[Zack]

The issue is imho the timing of the -10% mana cut.

If Fulvia is on defense, the attacker gains mana primarily from tiles and can fire his special next turn. But Fulvia’s mana cut happens between the mana gain from tiles and the next turn, thus preventing heroes to have a full mana bar, except for mages, styx and ninjas.

On attack the situation is different. Defending heroes gain mana primarily from hitting tiles and at the end of the turn. If a defending hero gets enough mana from hitting tiles, they can fire their special despite Fulvia’s mana cut.

The situation would be comparable for the defenders, if the mana cut would happen after the tiles have been moved, i.e. at the end of the attacker’s turn.

At least, the attacker has some influence as he can usually move tiles that don’t hit the affected targets, but it is not that easy to avoid hitting 3 of the 5 defending heroes.
=> depending on the board and the available tile moves it may be tactically advantageous to sometimes only hit 2 targets with Fulvia’s special

[u2371]

@Zack

Moonrise Strike damage = base damage / 1000 x (attack - defense) + base damage (round down)
with base damage = 50% of max damage

@Zack

Moonrise Ward damage reduction = - base damage reduction / 1000 x (attack - defense) + base damage reduction (probably round down)
with base damage reduction = 50% x max damage reduction

The formula looks quite simple and adaptable to any owl hero, so I give it high chances that it is correct.
The data for Fulvia seems to fit with it as well.

Thank you.

Here is some more question.

In raid/war, is there any different between attacker and defender for the Moonrise Strike damage ? Do the owl heroes on defense get bonus damage ?

Do the counter attack, elemental reflect, rogue/Margaret dodge and Moonrise Ward work against Moonrise Strike ? I wonder if Moonrise Strike damage is more like normal special skill damage or Gullinbursti’s buff damage/Baldur’s buff damage.

[Zack]

@u2371

In raid/war, is there any different between attacker and defender for the Moonrise Strike damage ? Do the owl heroes on defense get bonus damage ?

No, the defenders do not get a damage bonus.
Luckily I happened to get a team in raid that had a young Timius 4-55 and could test his damage:

Let’s see how this damage compares to the formula:

max damage	attack	defense	difference	damage	calculated damage
1500	1128	1257	-129	653	653,25
1500	1128	1421	-293	530	530,25
1500	1128	1132	-4	747	747
1500	1128	1132	-4	747	747
1500	1128	1138	-10	742	742,5

=> perfect calculation results after rounding down
=> no damage bonus for the defending team here

=> So this also verifies my formula for a Timius 4-55
=> I guess that should also suffice as evidence for the general Moonrise Strike damage formula

When that Timius is lb2 and has 1363 attack I expect higher damage against my team:

max damage	attack	defense	difference	damage	calculated damage
1500	1363	1257	106	-	829,5
1500	1363	1421	-58	-	706,5
1500	1363	1132	231	-	923,25
1500	1363	1132	231	-	923,25
1500	1363	1138	225	-	918,75

@u2371

Do the counter attack, elemental reflect, rogue/Margaret dodge and Moonrise Ward work against Moonrise Strike ? I wonder if Moonrise Strike damage is more like normal special skill damage or Gullinbursti’s buff damage/Baldur’s buff damage.

Counter does work, and so does bypass when the owl has styx troops. Here’s my 2x Olbec 1-1:

I tried to find another owl to raid, but even 600k food later I couldn’t find one.

=> since counter works on the Moonrise Strike, it should be deemed as a normal special skill with direct damage and I expect that blind, dodge and reflect will work against it

[u2371]

Thank you very much.

[2puttshaqur]

Would it be beneficial if I visit your alliance so you can test my 4.90 relius and 2.30 fulvia.

[Blessed-I-Am]

Dlb timius with darkfeather hit real hard 1K to 1200 didn’t have me glasses on but is that what I see and all my guys are DLB

December 26, 2023

[u2371]

@Zack

perfect calculation results after rounding down

@Zack I have an interesting idea. I think you can use owl heroes’ Moonrise Strike to find the base Def value of titan and mystic titan. I think it is pretty useful to know base Def value of titan. But I think it gonna need help from many people if we want to find all base Def value of every titan at any specific each star .

For titan’s attack value, I don’t think that will be possible because Atk of titan is too high to use Moonrise Ward to find. It might possible for low-moderate star titan with help of Darkfeather but very unlikely for 13* and 14* titans

[Zack]

@2puttshaqur

Would it be beneficial if I visit your alliance so you can test my 4.90 relius and 2.30 fulvia.

Or I could temporarily visit your alliance

Let’s see what we want to investigate and brainstorm on the (hopefully simple) solutions.

Elemental reflect versus Moonrise Strike
This may be tested, for example, with Mitsuko versus Olbec or Timius in a friendly battle. After Mitsuko fires her special and gets reflect for everybody Olbec just needs to fire at any of them and it will reflect or not.
=> I believe I can arrange for this setup in my alliance (an alliance member has Mitsuko 1-1)
Expectation: reflect will probably work against Moonrise Strike

edit:

298 damage against Mitsuko
238 from Mitsuko’s 80% reflected damage
120 from Mother North’s 80% reflected damage
Damage to Mitsuko = 300 / 1000 x (405 - 409) + 300 = 298
80% reflect damage = 80% x 298 = 238
Damage to Mother North = 300 / 1000 x (405 - 991) + 300 = 124 => min is 150
80% reflect damage = 80% x 150 = 120

=> The Moonrise Strike can be reflected
(edit end)

Rogue/Margaret dodge
A great setup would be Timius/Fulvia/Ommodus/Featherino on defense and Margaret or C-Little John with their dodge buff on attack with only rogues for the rest of the attacking team.
With several heroes effected, they should dodge during 2-3 Moonrise Strikes for sure.
=> I expect I can arrange for this setup in my alliance with my Featherino on defense
Expectation: dodge will probably work against Moonrise Strike

edit2:

Here Paeia dodges Featherino’s hit with Margaret’s buff.

In these two instances Featherino hit 3 and Kelile’s rogue dodge triggered in both cases, so she avoided the damage and she provided the dodge buff from her superior dodge to her neighours.

=> Moonrise Strike can be dodged

(edit2 end)

Moonrise Ward against Moonrise Strike
Relius on defense team, any owl hero (even Featherino works great here) on the attacking team.

• have the owl fire at Relius’ team without MR Ward up and screenshot the damage
• have the owl fire at the same target(s) in Relius’ team with MR Ward up and screenshot the damage
• edit: tap on each hero and take a screenshot for each hero, so that all attack and defense values are known (this should allow to verify the MR Ward formula) (edit end)
  If MR Ward works, then the damage reduction will be super obvious as a fixed damage value will be reduce by a fixed reduction value.

=> Can you temporarily set up Relius in your raid defense team, have one of your alliance members attack you and take these two screenshots?
Expectation: MR Ward will probably work against MR Strike

I’m currently asking, if someone beside me in my alliance has any owl hero.
This test should also be manageable with a Featherino 1-1 versus a Paeia 1-1 with accompanying 3* 1-1 heroes

edit2:
Managed to get some data on a Featherino 1-1 (with 407 attack and max 280 damage) on defense attacking my Paeia team.

First, I’d like to point out that the tie breaker applies to turn 31 also in friendly matches as I could see the Moonrise Strike damage go up sharply then, which confused me at first.
Second, here are some screenshots showing the effect of Paeia’s Moonrise Ward:

	max reduction	attack	defense	difference	reduction	calc reduction
C-Little John	80	407	711	-304	52	52,16
Wang Yuanji	80	407	955	-548	61	61,92
Margaret	80	407	371	36	38	38,56
Paeia	80	407	423	-16	40	40,64

=> the MR Ward formula works nicely
=> MR Ward reduces the damage from MR Strike
(edit2 end)

@u2371

I have an interesting idea. I think you can use owl heroes’ Moonrise Strike to find the base Def value of titan and mystic titan. I think it is pretty useful to know base Def value of titan.

Great idea!

@u2371

But I think it gonna need help from many people if we want to find all base Def value of every titan at any specific each star

Yes, that is too much for a few players. There are too many titans and the available range of titans is limited by the alliance’s titan score.

But it should be easy to do for anybody as soon as one has an owl hero with MR Strike - maybe you need to level the owl a bit for the higher titans.

1. put the owl hero in your titan attacking team and provide some mana potions
2. take a screenshot of the titan to record the titan name, colour and HP
3. start the titan battle
4. tap on the owl to show the hero information and take a screenshot (attack value and max damage)
5. use mana potions to charge the owl
6. fire the owl’s special against the titan and take screenshot of the damage
7. put the screenshot into the dedicated thread (needs to be created first)

If the screenshotted damage value is higher than the min damage and lower than the max damage of the MR Strike, we can derive the defense value from the formula

Well, I just checked, there should be 107 different titan HP for regular titans…
We may have to check, if each colour has the same stats when the HP are the same.
We also need to check for all of the rare titans…
=> that will be a big project for the player base

But we only need to have this done once for each titan name, titan stars and titan HP.

edit:

This 7* titan with 1,650,000 HP got hit by 279 from Olbec’s 405 attack 300 base damage MR Strike.
Titan defense = 1000/300 x (300/1000 x 405 + 300 - 279) = 475 defense
=> That 7* titan has 475 defense
=> Owl’s are great for research

edit2:

• added the results for the dodge mechanic
• added 3 more titan defense values:

Titan defense = 1000/330 x (330/1000 x 454 + 330 - 330) = 454 defense
This Demon Lord 6* 1,386,000 HP has 454 defense

Titan defense = 1000/390 x (390/1000 x 476 + 390 - 400) = 450 defense
This Demon Lord 6* 1,320,000 HP has 450 defense

Titan defense = 1000/360 x (360/1000 x 487 + 360 - 374) = 448 defense
This Primal Lizard 6* 1,320,000 HP has 448 defense

=> Is there a small range for the titans defense or does each colour really have different defense values when they have the same HP?

[Dorkus]

The mana cut mechanic on Fulvia is not very useful in its current implementation, it’s effectively another form of mana generation slowing and not a traditional cut as it does not prevent already charged enemies from firing. This makes it quite weak. Comparing Fulvia (up to 1240 damage at average speed) and Timius (up to 1500 damage at fast) I think Fulvia can easily be reverted to her pre-beta hit-all enemies form, or have the effect increased to around 25% per turn.

[Blessed-I-Am]

Thank you seem like only people saying this is the people who have her and tested her out and I definitely agree with what you are saying the mana reduction is nonexistent needs to be slightly increased

[Tidyup]

It’s hard for me to really picture the problem of this mana cut as I don’t have her. So my guess is that the mana cut has normal priority and goes first before other mana genning effects activate

[2puttshaqur]

It’s just not noticeable. Neith… Mama cut . Their heroes, if full, don’t go off unless you throw tiles at them again.

Here… It is ailment applied, tiles, mana gain from tiles, if fully charged, special goes off, if not fully charged, passive mana gains and then at this point mana is reduced. So I guess if they passively fully charged and then get cut back… Okay, they were prevented from going off, but as it stands it seems pretty inconsequential for a new mana ailment.

[u2371]

@Zack

=> Owl’s are great for research

Yes, I wish I have one

@Zack

But it should be easy to do for anybody as soon as one has an owl hero with MR Strike - maybe you need to level the owl a bit for the higher titans.

1. put the owl hero in your titan attacking team and provide some mana potions
2. take a screenshot of the titan to record the titan name, colour and HP
3. start the titan battle
4. tap on the owl to show the hero information and take a screenshot (attack value and max damage)
5. use mana potions to charge the owl
6. fire the owl’s special against the titan and take screenshot of the damage
7. put the screenshot into the dedicated thread (needs to be created first)

If the screenshotted damage value is higher than the min damage and lower than the max damage of the MR Strike, we can derive the defense value from the formula

Well, I just checked, there should be 107 different titan HP for regular titans…
We may have to check, if each colour has the same stats when the HP are the same.
We also need to check for all of the rare titans…
=> that will be a big project for the player base

Let call it “Titan project” .

Since it need many people, I think the “Titan project” have to have its own thread.

I think I gonna tag your assistant here @G_H_O_S_T . I think he can help you to create the thread and guide.

---

I have another minor question.

Does Shaal’s “All Holy allies receive all strong damage as regular damage” work against Moonrise Strike ?

But it seem to be very hard to test because it is very hard to find Shaal .

[Ven0m_dk]

If it is indeed 10% of existing mana and not 10% of the mana-bar, then the Cut amount could make sense suddenly. But it really just makes the ability a little week compared to the other mana control heroes.
New mechanisms and all, it should just be 10% and after your own turn, to reduce enemy specials from firering. Several top100 players are running the bird on defense so can’t be all bad. Unfortunately I am a few rings short at moment.