Calculating troops needed for mana speed milestones, and choosing troops to level

[Gerg]

I’ve been really struggling with working out the mana speed thing.
The resources that I’ve looked to are [Master Discussion] - Styx Troops (not that I’ve got any of them) by @PlayForFun n and Optimal Mana Bonus Numbers for Every Mana Speed (Now including Ninja Heroes) by @Thing2
These references indicated Troop bonuses to mana speed achieved as:
Mana 1 +5%
Magic 1 +5%
Styx 1 +5%
Mana 5 +7%
Magic 5 +8%
Styx 5 +8%
Mana 11 +9%
Magic 11 +11%
Styx 12 +11%
Mana 17 +11%
Mana 23 +13%
Styx 16 +14%
Magic 17 +14%
Mana 29 +15%
Magic 23 +17%
Styx 23 +17%
Styx 27 +20%
Magic 29 +20%
and that thresholds for lower requirements for tiles as:

Firstly, please can someone quote the number of tiles that would be required for a charge at each of these thresholds?
Secondly, how do the following calculations/evaluations look?

These are my main purples with notes on their costume and talent bonuses and the Mana and Magic troops that they would need to get them to thresholds:

(edited with strike-throughs in response to later post from Gargon):

Alfrike. with talent bonus +2%, speed is Very Slow supportive of optimals at 4% (with Mana 1&+5>2%orMagic 1&+5>2%)| 13% (with Mana 17&11+%orMagic 11&+11%)| 18% (with Magic 23&+17>16%) 23%| 29%

Domitia. with talent bonus +2%, speed is Average supportive of optimals at 6% (with Mana 1&+5>4%orMagic 1&+5>4%)| 12% (with Mana 17&+11>10%orMagic 11&+11>10%)| 18% (with Magic 23&+17>16%)| 25%

c (+5%) Rigard. with talent bonuses +2%, speed is Average supportive of optimals at 6% (met)| 12% (with Mana 1&+5%orMagic 1&+5%)| 18% (with Magic 23&+17>16%)| 25% (with Magic 29&+20>18%)

Sartana. with talent bonus +2%, speed is Fast supportive of optimals at 7% (with Mana 1&+5%orMagic 1&+5%)| 15% (with Mana 23&+13%orMagic 17&+14>13%)| 24% (with Mana &+%orMagic &+%)| 34%

c (+5%) Sheshat. with talent bonus og+2%/c+2%, speed is Fast supportive of optimals at 7% (met)| 15% (with Mana 11&+9>8%orMagic 5&+8%)| 24% (with Mana 29&+20>17%orMagic 23&+17%)| 34%

Turgruk. with talent bonus +2%, speed is Very Fast supportive of optimals at 9% (with Mana 5&+7%orMagic 5&+8>7%)| 19% (with Magic 23&+17%)| 30% (not achievable)

It seems ridiculous to me that this level of calculation is needed to work out something that the game could be able to tell you instantly, but hey ho.

I’d really like to check that the above is right before looking further into which troops to work on next.

I currently have purple mana troops at levels 23, 11, 5, 1, and 1, purple magic troops at levels 5, 1, and 1, and a purple crit troop at level 6. I also have 52 ettokens and hope for a perilous swim in the Styx.

[Gargon]

AS to the table you have there, you can safely ignore all the black numbers, as the whole mana on defense works differently from offense and those numbers are really depending on how the attacker makes the matches, so besides the fact that faster is always better on defense it isn´t like you need an exact number.
Also it is only in very few cases (like by using family bonus in addition) to get a higher boost than 34% you can skip numbers bigger than that.
Leaves a lot less numbers to think about.
But unfortunately this list only covers the standard speeds, not the different kinds of charge speeds, so you´d have to add those to your list which increases the complexity again.

here is a much better list than yours:

New mana generation and troop requirement spreadsheet with legendary troops included

Here’s my newest spreadsheet. I hope it helps and please let me know if you find any typos in my work So I can get it corrected as soon as possible! Sorry everyone I made a bunch of mistakes It’s a lot of information and I was lazy but it’s updated and I’ll do a double check tomorrow. UPDATED 23-JAN-24 @ 05:22 PST (CALIFORNIA) [1000052194]

And yes it is rather stupid how complicated it is One of the many joys of playing this game I suppose Enjoy!
Otherwise just stick to the simple numbers (meaning the first blue number on your table or maybe all numbers up to 20%) those will cover a majority of cases that you will deal with.

[Gerg]

@Gargon

you can safely ignore all the black numbers

That… really helps and has allowed me to strike some of the content above (although I believe the struck content remains relevant for defences and alliance progress in wars).

So, having another look at this:

… I’ll have a stab at the resultant tile requirements in offence at the percentage thresholds:

Very fast +9% = 6 tiles, +30% = 5 tiles,
Fast +15% = 7 tiles, +34% = 6 tiles
Average +12% = 9 tiles, +25% = 8 tiles, (edit:)+43% = 7 tiles
Slow +10% = 11 tiles, +20% = 10 tiles, +34% = 9 tiles
Very Slow +4% = 13 tiles, +13% = 12 tiles,

How does this look?

[Gargon]

Do you have a bard and 20% mana troops? If not then you skip everything above 20 or so until you do.
Avg 7 tiles is 43 not 34.

If you want something easy to keep in your head: Here are the 3 most important numbers:

VF: 9 (for 6) (VF is rare, but if you have such a hero, never play with less than 9% boost). Keep in mind, during rush wars all heroes are VF.
F: 15 (for 7) Very common and definitely good to have, but the impact is smaller than VF and A.
A: 12 (for 9) this is by far the most important one, both because it is a very common speed and it is easy to reach as well as extremely impactful, basically it is obligatory, NEVER play an avg hero with less mana boost than this, it makes the hero close to useless.

Everything else is of little importance There usually isn´t much point playing slow and very slow heroes anyway and even if you do there isn´t much difference between 12 and 11 tiles. There are a few exceptions here, but nothing worth a general statement.
Other herospeeds and higher breakpoints are very rare, keeping those in mind is fun for some of us, but in practice it happens rather rarely that you need them. Maybe Ninja Charge 1 23% for 4 tiles (which means Ninjas of the 4% class make it easily with a 20% troop, but others don´t without a bard)

[Gerg]

With your help I’ve found a lot of value with the level of detail I’ve been aiming at. I think that it’s a valuable though laborious process for working out troop distribution and priorities for levelling/embleming. As mention, it’s the kind of thing that the game might help players with automatically but we have what we have. (I’m also wondering whether I make more use of crit troops and ninjas with the likes of rangers).

Anyway, here’s my state of play:

My current purple 4* troops are: mana, 23, 11, 5, and 1s, and magic 6 and 1s, (and crit 6) and I think my next priority may be to get to magic 11 and 17.
This on the basis of heroes:

Alfrike. speed Very Slow, 12 tiles at +13% with Mana 17&+11%or Magic 11&+11% (and bonuses: talent +2%), (13 tiles at +4%)
(In this case I think there can be value in using a very slow hero).
Domitia. speed Average, 9 tiles at +12% with Mana 17&+11>10%orMagic 11&+11>10% (and bonuses: talent +2%)
c Rigard. speed Average, 9 tiles at +12% with with Mana 1&+5%orMagic 1&+5% / 8 tiles at +25% with Magic 29&+20>18% (and bonuses: c+5%&talent +2%)
Sartana. speed Fast, 7 tiles at +15% with Mana 23&+13%orMagic 17&+14>13% (and bonuses: talent +2%)
c Sheshat. speed Fast, 7 tiles at +15% with Mana 11&+9>8%orMagic 5&+8% (and bonuses: c+5%&talent +2%)
Turgruk. speed Very Fast, 6 tiles at +9% with Mana 5&+7%orMagic 5&+8>7% (and bonuses: talent +2%)

My current yellow 4* troops are: mana 18, 11, and 1s, (and ninja 12, and 8, I think I may have fed away a… crit) and I think my next priority will be to get the 11 to 17.
This on the basis of heroes:

c Vivica. speed Slow, 11 tiles at +10% with Mana 1&+5>3%orMagic 1&+5>3% / 10 tiles at +20% with Mana 23&+13%orMagic 17&+14>13% (and bonuses: c+5%&talent og-tc +2%, (c1 0%, c2 4%))

Devana. speed Average, 9 tiles at +12% with Mana 17&+11>10%orMagic 11&+11>10% (and bonuses: talent +2%)

Sif. speed Average, 9 tiles at +12% with Mana 17&+11>10%orMagic 11&+11>10% (and bonuses: talent +2%)

c Li Xiu. speed Average, 9 tiles at +12% with Mana 1&+5>3%orMagic 1&+5>3% / 8 tiles at +25% with Magic 23&+17>16% (and bonuses: c+5%&talent og+4%(c1+2%))

Wu Kong. speed Average, 9 tiles at +12% with Mana 11&+9>8%orMagic 5&+8% (and bonuses: talent +4%)

My current blue 4* troops are: mana 23, and 1, (and crit1), and, mana wise, I’m thinking just to hold out on the hope of pulls for Styx or Magic troops (I currently hold 52 ETTs).
This on the basis of few leveled blue heroes:

c Morel. speed Fast, 7 tiles at +15% with Mana 9&+11>8%orMagic 5&+8% (and bonuses: c+5%&talent og+2%)

c Isarnia. speed Slow, 11 tiles at +10% with Mana 1&+5%orMagic 1&+5% / 10 tiles at +20% with Mana 29&+15%orMagic 23&+17>15% (and bonuses: c+3%&talent +2%)

c Boril. speed Average, 9 tiles at +12% with Mana 1&+5%orMagic 1&+5% / 8 tiles at +25% with Magic 29&+20% (and bonuses: c+5%&talent og+2%)

Master Lepus, speed Average, 9 tiles at +12% with Mana 23&+13>12%orMagic &+% (and bonuses: talent +0%(emblem shortage/demand)

Misandra. speed Fast, 7 tiles at +15% with Mana 23&+13%orMagic 17&+14>13% (and bonuses: talent +2%)

My current green 4* troops are: mana, 23, 11, and 1, and (and crit 6) and I think my next priority may be to get the 11 to 17 (I like using Evelyn with Zeline for the legends18 bonus).
This on the basis of heroes:

Grace. speed Fast, 7 tiles at +15% with Mana 17&+11%orMagic 11&+11% (and bonuses: talent +4%)

c Lianna. speed Fast, 7 tiles at +15% with Mana &+%orMagic &+% (and bonuses: talent +0%) need to reset

Zeline. speed Fast, 7 tiles at +15% with Mana 23&+13%orMagic 17&+14>13% (and bonuses: talent +2%)

Gargammal speed Fast, 7 tiles at +15% with Mana 23&+13%orMagic 17&+14>13% (and bonuses: talent +2%)

Kadilen. speed Fast, 7 tiles at +15% with Mana 17&+11%orMagic 11&+11% (and bonuses: talent +4%)

Evelyn. speed Fast, 7 tiles at +15% with Mana 23&+13%orMagic 17&+14>13% (and bonuses: talent +2%)

c Melendor. speed Average, 9 tiles at +12% with Mana 1&+5>3%orMagic 1&+5>3% / 8 tiles at +25% with Magic 29&+20>19% (and bonuses: c+5%&talent og+4%,c+2% )

Little John. speed Slow, 11 tiles at +10% with Mana 11&+9>8%orMagic &+% / 10 tiles at +20% with Magic 29 (and bonuses: talent +2%)

Brynhyld. speed Fast, 7 tiles at +15% with Mana 23&+13%orMagic 17&+14>13% (and bonuses: talent +2%)

My current red 4* troops are: mana, 20, and 1s, and magic 12 and 5, (and crit 1) and I think I’ll revisit this after working on my other colours and emblem redistributions.
This on the basis of heroes:

Blossom. speed Average, 9 tiles at +12% with Mana 17&+11>10%orMagic 11&+11>10% / 8 tiles at +25% (and bonuses: talent +2%)
c Kelile. speed Fast, 7 tiles at +15% with Mana 5&+7>6%orMagic 5&+8>6% (and bonuses: c+5%&talent +4%sorc)

Neema. speed Average, 9 tiles at +12% with Mana 11&+9>8%orMagic 5&+8% / 8 tiles at +25% (and bonuses: talent +4%)

Roughian and Nergib. speed Fast, 7 tiles at +15% with Mana 23&+13%orMagic 17&+14>13% (and bonuses: talent +2%)

Elena. speed Slow, 11 tiles at +10% with Mana 17&+11>8%orMagic 5&+8% / 10 tiles at +20% (and bonuses: talent +2%)

Boldtusk. speed Average, 9 tiles at +12% with Mana 1&+5%orMagic 1&+5% / 8 tiles at +25% with Magic 29&+20>18% (and bonuses: c+5%&talent +2%), speed is

Mitsuko. speed Average, 9 tiles at +12% with Mana 11&+11>8%orMagic 5&+8% (and bonuses: talent +4%)

I’m FtP and food is typically in short supply mainly due to an extensive use of TC20s and HA10.

I’m mainly feeding mid-level troops with 2s saving the 1s for beginning levelers and 3*+ for levels to 30.

[Gargon]

@Gerg

the game might help players with automatically

Sure it could, but I see it the other way really. It is one way of improving in this game that doesn´t need money, so it gives me a little edge over people that spend money, but don´t understand how the game works. Obviously money is a bigger factor than understanding of game mechanics, but better a small compensation than none at all (if it was all done automatically)

@Gerg

(I’m also wondering whether I make more use of crit troops and ninjas with the likes of rangers).

Really you shouldn´t ever waste resources on those types of troops at all. But if you already have them, put them on heroes that cannot reach a breakpoint anyway. Like if you have a fast hero but no way of gving him 15% mana, then you may as well give him 0% mana. It makes no difference to his speed anyway.
On the upside if you have those troops, they are perfect candidates to trade away for 5star troops

@Gerg

Anyway, here’s my state of play:

How many troops you need depends mainly on how you like to play your PvP: If you play 3-2 you need only 3 troops maxed ASAP. If you play mono, you need 5.
Of course you can´t simply max 3 troops, but if you have something like 29, 23,11 in each color you should be able to reach most breakpoints for a 3 stack. Just takes a bit of fiddling to get the combinations right.
Personally I think the Styx and Magic troops (not much difference between them) are better than the classic mana troops, but it doesn´t make the classic ones useless. just focus on the 20% troops if you have them and keep the others where they are.

As to mana nodes, if you don´t have like all maxed troops, just take all the mana nodes, it makes a big difference if you have to hit breakpoints with unmaxed troops. And even if you have all the troops maxed, the game changes all the time and throws a new thing at you constantly, having the mana nodes makes you much more likely to be able to deal with it. Like now 5 star troops only have 11% mana instead of 15% or 20%. People that skipped the mana node before, now either can´t reach the breakpoints anymore or they have to re-emblem half their heroes lol.

@Gerg

I’m FtP and food is typically in short supply mainly due to an extensive use of TC20s and HA10.

If you want to get your troops upgraded, you are much better off using HA to produce 2 and 3 star troop feeders than HA10. At least I haven´t even bothered researching HA10, I have actually never run a single recipe in the HA that wasn´t a feeder troop

TC20 makes sense if you have tons of feeder heroes, but no useful heroes to upgrade… But if that is what is slowing down your troop upgrades, I am pretty sure your game will improve more if you skip the TC20s and work on the troops until you run out of feeders, then you can still go back and do TC20 again.

@Gerg

I’m mainly feeding mid-level troops with 2s saving the 1s for beginning levelers and 3*+ for levels to 30.

Same here,I aim for lvl 17 with 1* then feed 2stars until I have enough 3+ to finish off the thing. The lvl 17 is just a rough goal to hit, depends always how many of each feeder I have, but if I am low on all of them, that´s what I go for.
BTW you don´t need to go all the way to 30. You can stop Styx at lvl 27, Wizard and classic mana at lvl 29. That´s when the mana bonus gets maxed out and you can save the resources to work on the next troop instead.

[Gerg]

Progress. I’ve gone about all my planned troop levellings and have reapplied emblems to my Lianna.

Given the troop feeders and heroes I have available, all troops are at optimal levels at least speed wise. I’m now looking to wait until I’ve used my troop tokens before other levelling such as in blue.

I think that, with all that planning, I’ve gone for the right targets for getting up to speed. Cheers mate.

[G_H_O_S_T]

Defensive numbers are entirely different. Took months of testing to finally uncover the true calculations, but I do know them now.

Defensive Mana - Troops/Differences/Turn- Based Mana Calculations and it's Discovery

Originally I created this post to establish a reasonable guideline for defensive mana generation. Since March 2017 when this game was released, we had a basic understanding of the speed in which mana is accrued and obtained defensively. The time this post has been active with collective contributions in which statistical figures presented by @Elioty33 served as the foundation for the discovery in which @Zack has refined and is very close to finding the exact value in regards to all aspects of de…

[2puttshaqur]

This is my tool… enter the speed of the hero… the mana troop mana bonus, the emblem bonus… if there is a costume bonus… bard… really you can do it all in one block… but I separate them… and bam… how many tiles you need to charge… and if you get a 10% mana chunk… same… how many tiles do you need.

Mana Calculator Spreadsheet

I made this a while back when there used to be only very fast, fast, average, slow, and very slow. It is still a work in process because I’m not sure if we have established exactly what speeds Slayer and Styx are at. Sure… around 11, around 6/9/12, but when using the spreadsheet, even a .1 tile/shield can mean the difference between 6 tiles and 7. Here is a Youtube video made around midnight… so not exactly at my most lucid. But the premise is simple. Change the mana speed from the drop dow…

[G_H_O_S_T]

That’s awesome my originals only had the initial speeds as well.

Started with the first spreadsheet which slowly evolved into three separate spreadsheets. Then I combined them to finally make the master spreadsheet. Now with the new troops I have the newer version.

And if anyone wants defensive numbers, look no further…

Hope this helps @Gerg

[Gerg]

@G_H_O_S_T

This first graphic has a minor error related to not so common very fast heroes in that the 5% needed from troops can be achieved by a Lv 1 Mana, Magic or Styx troop, same as you’ve shown for Average and Slow speed heroes,

[G_H_O_S_T]

That would be correct and that was the first spreadsheet I ever created. Probably was fixed but it’s so old I don’t actually have the original copy anymore.

I posted them more to show the progression over the years