[Primer] Tournament defense points or Why was my defense team attacked ZERO/ 3000 times

Gryphonknight · December 25, 2019, 3:06am

Subject
[Primer] Tournament defense points or Why was my defense team attacked ZERO/ 3000 times

Tournament Attacks

If you win 10x tournament attacks, matchmaking is designed to match you with more challenging defenses for the 11th battle.

This would not happen if players were matched to ONLY defenses that have not been attacked.

Example

Player AA has a 5x 4*+20 attack team.

Player DB has a 5x 5* 4.30 defense team that has been attacked 300 times.

Player DC has a 5x 2* 2.10 defense team and has been attacked zero times.

Player DB is a better match for Player AA, even though they have been attacked 300 times.

Player DC is a worse match for Player AA, even though they have been attacked zero times.

This means that the lower your team power, the less likely you are to be attacked.

More challenging

How does the game decide a defense team is more challenging?

It is a combination of TP seed ( see notes) and win/ losses.

So defense teams with high team power, and lots of success defeating attackers, are more challenging than teams with less team power and lots of losses.

Example Losses

Player AB has a TP attack seed of 2750 and win/ loss modifier of +100 for a current attack rating of 2850 due to many attack wins.

Player DD has a TP defense seed of 2000 and a win/ loss modifier of +750 for a current defense rating of 2750 due to many many many defense wins.

Player DE has a TP defense seed of 3000 and a win/ loss modifier of -750 for a current defense rating of 2250 due to many many many defense losses.

Player DD is more challenging for Player AB even though Player DE started the tournament with 1000 more defense team power than Player DD.

This means that the lower your team win ratio, the less likely you are to be attacked.

This is also why B score for defense teams is a 50% win ratio.

This is also why Team power is a terrible seed for actually measuring team effectiveness.

Highest ranking teams

The highest ranking teams are X*+20 teams with maximum costume and maximum troops. These teams have the most defense matchmaking points initially ( TP seed ), and from wins during the first day.

So every time you do not fight a X*+20 teams with maximum costume and maximum troops, and a high win ratio, you are not fighting the highest ranking teams.

Winning attacks

But every time you win a tournament attack you get closer to attacking these highest ranking teams.

But every time you lose a tournament attack you get further away from attacking these highest ranking teams.

That is the basic assumption of tournaments, everyone should be trying to reach these highest ranking teams.

More defense attacks

This roughly means the more times you are attacked during a tournament, the better your defense team is likely to be.

This roughly means the less times you are attacked during a tournament, the worse your defense team is likely to be.

Reinventing the wheel

Basically this boils down to trying to reinvent the wheel instead of using proven Elo math and history.

The Devs are trying to set up a play off tournament without practice days, without pre season days, without a regular season.

It is similar to running the World Cup by having all players from six years old to premier league participation in the same playoffs basing initial seeding on age.

Notes

Recently, I was on vacation with no cell signal from Sunday afternoon through Wednesday evening. That evening when I logged on I had very few points because I didn’t do my Monday or Tuesday attacks because of no cell service. But my defense was constantly being matched ~20 times a day and was about a C. Anyways I don’t think I believe that tourney point affects who your defense is being matched with.

Anyone have similar experiences?

Has anyone done a data mining project of defensive attacks? And how to figure out how to be attacked less.

yelnats_24 · September 23, 2021, 2:30pm

Seems you are mixing frequency and attacker’s power.

How many times (frequency) you get attacked depends on the power of your 5 strongest available heroes and troops. The higher it is, the higher your are on the top of the pyramid, the more you get attacked. Performance doesn’t seem to matter. The power of defense team doesn’t matter.

~~As for the strength of your attacker, it should be performance related. I notice that after a day of getting pummeled in defense, the next day my defense tend to win more.~~

Ballrash · September 24, 2021, 4:38am

The above states “After day one, defense matchmaking is based on your current laurels ( points ).” But I think I agree with you that it’s likely not based on your tourney score.

I don’t necessarily follow your thoughts on frequency. This is based on comparisons with a friend of mine who plays. We are both flush with +20 4* heroes and a few LB’d heroes. He has been attacked about 8 times over the four days of the tourney while I have been attacked over 30 times. I counted just eight today by time I woke up this morning. His defense is slightly higher TP than mine since he fielded a team with three LB’d heroes and I only had two in mine. So I’be yet to hear a convincing theory on what may cause or not cause high frequency of defensive matches.

yelnats_24 · September 24, 2021, 7:17am

It is not based on the defense TP, it is based on your top 5 even if they are not in defense (as long as they are available according to the rule) as well as strongest troop on each color. The higher they are, the higher you are on the top of the pyramid, which means there are more players who will attack you as they climb up in attack.

I forget that performance does matter a bit. But it is not your score or attack performance, it is your defence performance. If your defense win alot, it wil climb higher in the pyramid. If your defense loss a lot, it will goes down in the pyramid.

It is common that those with max heroes got attacked 10 to more than 30 times. But those with unmaxed heroes usually only get less than 10.

Nb: If you want to compare with your friend, you both have to list your 5 most strongest heroes (their power) as well as strongest troop of each color (their level). The current tournament do not have color restriction so they are all available.

Ballrash · September 24, 2021, 2:13pm

Thanks for discussion this with me.

I’ve found that even when my Defense is getting a D or even an E I’ve been attacked many times. So I’m not convinced that defense performance plays a big role but maybe.

But the one thing that may be causing the difference between our accounts is that his 3* troops are mostly unleveled where as mine are around 7 to 9. That may explain why each 4* tourney he isn’t getting attacked as much even though his defense TP is slightly higher than mine. As you know, those troops don’t do that much to bring up TP.

Forecasting how this theory my play out, when I start to level up my troops more then I should expect more attacks on my tourney D.

Also, the other thing is that now that my troops are leveled to where they are at then I can’t do anything to reduce the attacks I’m getting.

Finally, these notes above and the information you have, is this published by SG or has this been deduced through review of data collected?

yelnats_24 · September 24, 2021, 3:20pm

Again, it is not about defense TP but the total power of 5 strongest heroes + the power of strongest troop from each color.

The heroes and the troops you put on defense doesn’t matter. You can even put 1* heroes and still get many attacks because your 5 strongest heroes are and strongest troop of each colors are strong

It was said by the developer in update:

I have reread the change log, and I only found that defense performance only affect bonus for attacker. So it seems my initial understanding that defense performance do not matter was the correct one, just like you said.