Look closer at the Pace

General Discussion
1

This inspired me to look closer,
The first Hotm was June 2017 (Hel)
And the last is November 2023 (Uthragan)
So here are June and November:

2017,

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2018,

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2019,

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2020,

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2021,

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2022,

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2023,

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Now someone with patience might make sense of those images. pffft
I’d rather look at one image :laughing:

But that’s tricky… because data points, like utility, require supposition.

👈 Data Point Disclaimer

I realize that Team Power doesn’t mean much.
Card Power, on the other hand…
also may not mean much for some.
However… I would argue that it has more meaning than it used to!
CP can translate to more hp and def. Which can further mean increased ability to absorb punishment.
Which even further translates…
To extra time to work the board!

It can also mean increased tile damage and slash attacks.

I hypothesize that CP means less to those who have many recent heroes. And probably also doesn’t mean much for those that…

"compete according to the “tier” of their roster"

:point_up_2: with mediocrity

But for those that don’t have all the shiny new heroes and define “compete” as Try Your Best …well, that means you regularly find the paywall, and are likely grateful to get that extra CP when it comes around!

For those interested in calculating CP, you can find the formula here…

During an era when creep’s increased “gradually”, CP meant nothing compared to skill utility.

Is it still gradual?

Using the above Hotm and their CP,
Here’s the one image:

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You can nearly see the SG, then Zynga and now Take-Two eras.

It’s important to note, quantity is a missing data point. If I were to put all the heroes on one graph there would be a thousand overlapping lines all following a similar trend.

And quantity is also something that contributes to the pace!

For example,
In November of 2020 there were two legendary released: Glenda and Odin.
Now we average 10 times that in a month!
That’s a very important take-away! Because Nov. 2020 was past the halfway point from where we sit now…
This matters because it shows a trend…!

Even if they taper back, the pace is already so aggressive that it can’t be hidden from the top. Especially when re-releasing old heroes like xnol after nerfing it. Clearly that move wasn’t made for balance! …unless talking about a budget.

The pace has pushed the game to a breaking point where… “Big Balance Updates” are used in order to make room for…
More Creeps :joy:

Another take-away is materials such as ascension mats, emblems and aether.
If you are able to look at the graph above determine where your future fits on it.
Keep that creep train in mind as you blem, limit break and limit break again (and soon, again and again) keep the creep train in mind as you labor away on something that is destined to…

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11 Likes
2

You’ve interpreted an outlier as a trend and used a seriously faulty metric for judging them. Yes… we’re seeing rapid power creep. No… it’s not as bad as your graph shows.

3

How so? .

4

Character Power doesn’t even look at the Charater’s Special… which is typically where the character’s strengths are.

5

Understood.

You included!
I agree that CP is NOT a singular factor for victory. I don’t think there is such a thing.
I know how to calculate it.
And therefore disagree that it makes no difference, or is “faulty”

TP… is pretty much meaningless.

I am open to datapoints that we can use for simple translation of the pace. Do you have any suggestions? I like Hotm because they span the breadth of the game (for the most part) more than any other group. Is that why they are an “outlier”?

1 Like
6

I’m not sure what’s the issue here. Hotms used to be really good. Then they were really bad for a long time. Now new ones are quite decent; at least last couple of them. I think it’s really good for the game; esp the f2p players.

7

Character power is a combined measure of the hero’s stats. It is a decent indicator of how well the hero will survive a hit from a special.

A couple years ago I could reliably kill pretty much any hero with two sniper attacks (for example Gregorian and Lianna). Yesterday those same two needed FOUR hits to take out a weakened C.Jabberwock. Fortunately I got a green cascade to do so. He is not even considered a top hero. And no, none of those hits were misses.

That is power creep.

6 Likes
8

Good hotm’s are more symptomatic of how much better the new Event heroes are. They are only good in relative terms.

2 Likes
9

that’s not what im talking about. new heroes are getting better but hotms fell behind of that rate for a while. Now they are good again.

10

For how long?

That’s what the pace is all about!
There is a horizon beyond current portals.

When you have to LB3 your new Hotm after you ascend, emblem, LB1, LB2, and then it gets a costume while you’re still trying to LB3.
It would be too late to keep the good hotm of yesterday and simply dial back the event passives and leaping stats

11

LMAO, you know the fact that he is using card power is actually very modest in the estimate/calculation.

If you look at all the OP specials in the OP hero and how the actually affect you in battle, it is 10 times worst lol

Get whack a few times by Aramis/Hurricane, we all know how that feels, and that’s from 1 hero. Lololol @ “is not that bad”

5 Likes
12

That’s actually his point.
Skill utility has always had more value.
Especially during the “gradual” creep era.
I do acknowledge that.

There’s no way to quantify creeps…

But stats do have an impact!
Now the OP skills of yesterday, heal less
Damage less. CP isn’t meaningless like TP is.
But skill utility reigns supreme. That’s what drives revenue in every portal.
Make no mistake, the Mega Minions…
:point_up_2: that’s a hidden PASSIVE
one that disables all previous counters.

@Mikal is correct about CP. Skill utility matters more. Always has, still does, and always will.

But I think for many:

CP means more than it used to!
Without developing CP, we can’t use 4* in current raid meta. We can’t even use legendary!
We have to narrow our own variety in our rosters to maintain relevancy. If you’re low on those materials, having something with decent CP therefore extends that variety for a very short period of time before you have to raise that card’s CP if you intend to keep using it.

But… IF you happen to pull a new creep that does the same thing better, with higher base stats. Now you got food for SE and wasted mats.

So if… I could overlay a skill quantity,
I hypothesize that it would align above CP, yes!
But in a semi-linear trace, where @Enoikos11 is also correct. One that would WORSE!

These new skills are taking aim at wiping out everything that came before. Everything… in your entire roster!

1 Like
13

Since we are in agreement, I don’t mean to argue with you, but idk how I am reading him wrong

He literally said “is not as bad” idk man. :person_shrugging:

Couple with the fact his original reply start with, “you are using outliers”, which to me show what he meant when he says “is not as bad”.

If you meant that he understood the use of card power was modest measure and in reality and practice, it is much worst, from his sentences I really don’t get that feel/meaning man. But is ok I could be wrong doesn’t matter that much really.

2 Likes
14

Good compared to what? Older event/season heroes and HOTM, yes. Current event/season heroes, not so much.

R&N is the only recent HOTM that often showed up on higher-end defences, and that has faded out now too.

I agree that the HOTM in general are better this year than they have been. And that is a good thing for those of us who don’t chase the latest and greatest. But they are still in general second-class citizens no matter the improvements. And that is because of the accelerated power creep.

5 Likes
15

that’s true for any hero.

When HOTMs were introduced, they were better than latest portal hero.
Then they were similar and for a long time in the middle (except for rare exceptions), hotms has been pretty ■■■■ compared to latest heroes. This is very true for most 2022 hotms and early 2023 hotms. All most useless for anyone but F2P.

However, some recent 2023 hotms have been quite good compared to latest portal heroes. Ofc they are not better/similar but now hotms are worth leveling depending on your roster/resources even if you are P2P.

A very large chunk of player base will have hotm as such hotms cant be like Hurricane or everyone will start nerf campaign. Hotms don’t need to show up in top defenses (except rarely); they just need to be decent and fill a niche.

1 Like
16

Probably replied the wrong way to the wrong person, hate thread style forums… Higher stat cards with specials that charge faster, hit more enemies, or hit at higher percentages means extreme power creep. Nobody is getting stats boosts with slower specials that hit fewer enemies for lower percentages. Pointless to even bring up a discrepancy between stats creep and special creep, there isn’t one. Cards get stronger bases while simultaneously getting more passives and getting more bullet points on specials. They live longer, hit harder, kill faster.

1 Like
17

SG did adjust a bunch of stats in their rebalance, lessening specials and increasing stats was their stated goal. Still seeing big time power creep cards so not sure they were successful. But they may also be a factor in your analysis.

18

I believe that part of the goal with making stats “more important” was that they wanted older heroes to fall further behind at a quicker pace, thereby making even mediocre new heroes more powerful than good old heroes (mostly), and therefore continuing to push the need for new summoning.

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19

Some of the problem is that top new heroes also have great specials, thereby being doubly strong, for a while

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20

When HOTM’s were introduced there were not that many portal heroes available. Hel was the first in June 2017.

They weren’t better but some were on par. Gravemaker was one of the best at the time and had a surprisingly long period as an apex hero. He was part of two metas in his day, first with Guinevere and then as part of GTV (an extremely rare all-HOTM meta – that probably destroyed any future for on-par HOTM’s).

And yet I still remember when GM was released most players considered him sub-par. He hits too weak, even at very fast, was a typical complaint.

3 Likes