Frosth or Master for blue mono?

I usually have a fairly clear idea of which direction to go with my heroes but this one has got me scratching my head a little bit.

Currently I run Kiri, C Kiril, Frida, Richard and Vela (sometiems swap out Vela for Grimble 2 for a mana gain safety net). It is a super strong, super durable mono with the one drawback of Richard firing in 10 whereas the others fire in 9 (I have one level 17 troop and am nowhere near getting another one). To get the team fully synergised I can either:

  • swap out Richard for Master Lepus, speeding up the team hitter and giving some extra oomph (although obviously he won’t be nearly as durable). I already have attack down covered so that is no loss.

  • swap out Vela for Frosth. He will create some decent minions at fast which helps an already durable team and then 1 or 2 turns later will give Richard his mana to fire in case the tiles have dried up, which lets Richard take advantage of the buffs and debuffs

Other considerations:

  • Frosth will be nice on my auto-farming team with Noor
  • If I decommission Richard then i can donate his emblems to Dr Oreo
  • I currently don’t have any rogue emblems to give to Frosth, but he can be my next rogue project

Edit: I have 12 scopes but only one battle tome so mats are at a premium and I don’t currently have the luxury of ascending both

I think Lepus with fast mana will win you more raids/wars that average Richard. As for Frosth not thinking he’s worth it. Noor/Freya is way stronger minion team. Some people in my alliance broke down the math (they love that stuff) and determined that Frosth would be a waste of mats…especially if you have other minion creators. If he’s all you got then go for it and i think Vela’s attack down is more beneficial than you might think in winning.

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Agree, but I don’t have Freya sadly

I don’t need Vela’s attack down as I have C Kiril, Richard and Vela all bringing attack down. So I can afford to take out either Vela or Richard. Her hit and DOT still have an impact especially after the buffs and debuffs so I certainly don’t discount her

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If I’m reading that correctly, it seems you’re already running two healers/passives on that team [in Kiril/C
Kiril]. Meaning, I probably wouldn’t add a third [in Frosth]. + There’s no minion heroes to pair him with (unless you count Vela being Druid), so SS left mostly hanging.

Although, I’m sure he’d be excellent paired with Noor (despite the speed/color difference), idk if that’s enough justification to max alone. Doesn’t even have emblems waiting for him (but on that note, does Lepus?), so use would be quite niche - especially at first.

I mean, ultimately I think you should go with your gut [on this] and/or who you think you’ll enjoy playing with, and/or pairing with, more - despite whether or not it being considered the “wise” choice - but regardless of what that is, I’ll throw my 2¢ at ya anyway:

No surprise here, but I think the “wise” choice would be to go Lepus (no doubt); one of the most destructive fast heroes around - that even tho he’s gotta wait around on Frida/defense down - once he does, it’s insta-death. You could even replace Vela with him [over Richard] if ya wanted more damage output. I know then you’d lose out on that fast attack down and DOT, but you’ve got attack down in both Richard and C. Kiril (and the latter can be made fast) that idk if she brings enough “new” or usefulness to the table anyway.

Buuuuut, Frosth will definitely be more fun - as minion heroes usually are. Like I said above, pairing with Noor could make for some exciting matches :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: If you have the roster depth, and/or the will, then I say go for it. Better that than be bored/unhappy with your decision.

Idk, food for thought :slightly_smiling_face: Whatever you decide, good luck! :grin:

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Do you need both Kiril and costume Kiril?
Is it redundancy incase one dies?
I want to know if you’d consider removing regular Kiril for Frosthe. Frosthe can essentially be the second healer while speeding up your average heroes if you only get 8 tiles.

I know you generally run more rainbow-ish What do you use mono blue for?

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I have run both Kirils for quite a long time. It gets the full range of buffs and debuffs (defense and attacking) which gives the hitters a huge boost whilst also helping me survive any retaliatory specials. Also, the 52% heal is huge and I could potentially stagger it if required.

This has been my most successful mono and a large part of that is due to the double Kirils. Having said that I am always up for experimentation so it is something I would consider

I try to run rainbowish but mono keeps calling me back. Partly because I have most of my monos set up at 9 tiles and I feel that is a resonable ask, and partly because some elemental links are really nice (looking at you Malicna) and partly because I just love having all of my specials ready together and partly because there are great synergies within the same colors (looking at you Wilbur + Baldur). The most rainbow-like team I currently have is a 2/2/1 Skadi team the rest run at 4/1 or full mono

Oh and forgot to answer

I would generally run my blue mono in every war. Against green teams I typically use it against a Heim tank. For reds any team is a viable target - typically Jade. For purples I would typically run a 4-1 vs a Freya team with Grimble as the off color

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Caveats up front: I don’t have C-Kiril or Frosthe. I don’t use Richard much.

Since Kiril only does 28% health, I’d rather use Frosthe to give a quasi-heal more quickly, while boosting mana of the slower heroes for when you need them. I like the attack up, but I’ve never found it to be a difference maker.

As for Richard v Lepus: does Richard always kill your target after you’ve used C-Kiril and Frida? If so, how much more do you gain from Lepus? If not or if you get 8 tiles often, seems like Lepus could help more. Or maybe his minor damage can be strong enough against the sides. The Frosthe minion would also help with the less sturdy Lepus too.

Other random thoughts:
Could you use C-Sonya in here too for a cleanse? Might help with surviving longer.
I’d potentially be using Sapphire over Lepus or Richard if I had this team (and all heroes mentioned) for added flexibility. I’d be considered Sapphire wouldn’t do enough damage to one target to take them out, but gives more flexibility.

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I always do! :slight_smile: I have gone with many “unwise” choices in my roster and they have all served me well

I totally agree with you there, I think the primary driver for any ascension decision should be to have fun. This is a game, after all! And I do lean towards Frosth for the fun factor - and because I truly, truly hate doing PVE and putting together an effective auto-farming team helps reduce the need for me to be actively involved.

But I also get the argument that Master Lepus will more than likely make my team more effective and as an added consderation I might be able to use him in my defense in place of Skadi

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Well, then I think you’ve found your answer :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

+ Maxing Frosth means you can benefit from his amazing elemental link [in your mono blue team], so I mean, not completely unwise; may just be the boost ya need for em :blush:

+ I’m totally curious on what your experience with Noor + Frosth will look like [in the future], so for my own selfish purposes, I’d actually prefer you go Frosth too :joy: (mostly cuz you’re one of the few I know of willing to use Noor, and if they truly make a good pair, maybe it’ll entice me enough to give Noor a shot too :wink:)

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So defense down and elemental defense down essentially boosts my attack by:
1.85 (elemental d down) * 1.51 (d down) = 2.79. Multiply that by Kiril’s Attack up = 2.79 * 1.3 = 3.63. That 30% on the boosts is equivalent to an 80-90% boost without buffs/debuffs. And yes that makes a difference

After the 2 Kirils and Frida yes - assuming there are no major overheals and/or minions in play. I like to try to take out multiple targets in the first round of specials and usually can manage that with Richard and Vela.

Lepus with max emblems is around 896 attack I think, and I have topped out Richard at 738. That makes their firepower:
Target: Richard 738 * 4.15 = 3062 Lepus 896 * 4.1 = 3673
Next to target: Richard = 1531 Lepus = 896 1835
Which is roughly 20% added firepower

I really need 9 tiles for this team to work as Kiril, C Kiril and Frida will all fire at 9. Only Vela and Lepus could fire at 8 and Lepus would not add any value by firing early

I am curious too. Particularly with her upcoming buff. One special from Frosth will boost a Noor minion to 39% attack and 39% health, 2 will bring it to 50.7% each. Although in practice that won’t work out exactly as the minion will already be damaged or dead. 3 boosts would obviously be impossible. But that first boost is entirely do-able.

Most of my alliance uses Noor in either 3/70 or maxed form. I think she gets used a lot more than one would expect based on the forum feedback on her. If nothing else she really is great for ninja tower and PVE stuff.

My current use for her is paired with Baldur vs Freya tanks

@Homaclese

If you are well adept already with 2 Kiril’s on your mono blue, keep them since you have defense and attack down to the enemy and defense and attack up to your allies. Keep Frida. Regular defense down from your cKiril and the polar bear’s elemental defense down stack. Keep your Richard. But remove Vela, strip her of emblems and give them to Lepus after you ascended the bunny. His attack stat is high that the tile damage will be boosted and his special damage multiplier is insane. I stripped Vela of her emblems and gave them to my Lepus, who is at +19 (I don’t need the 4% mana bonus on the 20th talent node). I want costume of Kiril for the longest time. Alas, I don’t have it. But my mono blue is set up as follows: Athena+8 (all attack talent opting for the mana node bonus; supported by a level 17 mana troop), Frida+19 (all attack path; I will get her to +20 for the defense bonus since I still have 346 paladin emblems but that is not a priority; supported by a level 25 mana troop), Sapphire+20 (all attack path; supported by a level 6 mana troop, still working on it to get to level 11), Lepus+19 (all attack path with 893 attack stat; supported by a level 14 crit troop for defense and HP) and Ariel+7 (defense and health talent; supported by a level 11 mana troop).

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I absolutely love running both kiril as well… I’d stick with that, as they work dang well in tandem. Richard gets the cut for me with the definite input of Lepus. He just murders the opposition, and with Fridas EDD, the kiril’s buff and debuff it’s a foregone conclusion, great synergistic team.

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Lepus hands down, it’s not even a contest. Frosth really needs another minion summoner on the team to tap his full potential, because just by himself his minions are kinda meh (I guess you could fire him twice, but on a board like that you probably could’ve won with any other blue hero).

Btw my blue 4tack is cKiril-Frida-Cobalt-Lepus, between cKiril and Frida, if all the debuffs proc (ie no withstand/evade/dodge nonsense) Lepus can reliably kill two, sometimes three heroes with a bit of luck. I jacked my kamikaze rabbit up to 19 going the full attack path and he as a ridiculous 893 attack, which IIRC is eclipsed only by cIssy and more recently Cobalt. You will not regret ascending Lepus first I promise you that much.

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I ended up going with Lepus after first getting Frosth to 3/70. Reason(s) being - Frosth actually does really nicely in auto-farming at 3/70, synergising with Noor and usually being able to survive long enough without my intervention. I see a future slot for him in my PVP team with Noor, I think that would be quite fun to play.

The other reason is I realised I had a pressing need for a hitter in my blue team. I took one out from my mono in order to introduce one of my Grimbles as a mana safety net, and that took out quite a bit of killing power - especially if there are minions up and I am not in a position to use Grimble. So now I have lepus at 4/30 and even at that level he greatly increases my firepower and killing ability, and I think I have won something like 5 in a row vs top defenses with him in the team (plus 5 more in friendly raids, but not really counting those).

I am running Richard, Frida, Kiril or C Kiril (depending on the opponents) and Grimble. Vela doesn’t have as much impact and will be donating her 9 emblems to Lepus…

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Lepus looks like the right choice. When you hit that hard, who needs minions or healing?

For what it’s worth, I’ve been experimenting with Frosth in similar teams to the ones you mention. I find him very effective on blue stacks containing various permutations of ariel, misandra, miki, vela and Glenda. The mutually reinforcing elemental links and mana gains are a great synergy.

Where I find him less effective is in a 3-2 when paired with a stronger minion summoner (I’ve been using him with bera, I do also have Noor but haven’t used him much with her). Sometimes you get into a situation where he is ready to fire but to do so would bump off a mega minion (bera’s minions are about 600hp once frosth’s buff has kicked in a couple of times). Of course, you can hold his special but there may be another hero who needs protecting or you may need his elemental link to fire. It’s still a powerful combination and would be fine in many circumstances but I don’t see it as viable against the very toughest defences where the margin of error is so small and you can’t afford passengers.

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