Stones' colour distribution is NOT random - MASTER Board Conspiracy

[CivBrit]

Nope. The beta issue proves that the tile generation has absolutely nothing to do with the heroes on either side.

[Mothra]

The beta issue proves nothing.

[Homaclese]

@FrancescoDarkness

They are lying and they are still defending it here, I wanted to cook that maybe it’s really a coincidence, but not by mistake, what they told me in the second thread is also stupid, there is no 20% plus to the attack and the rules apply only to those who do not. The same heroes I have don’t do what they do when the opponent has them plus paid heroes. Attack power is 60% lower and emblems work 50% less. In short, a factor other than chance must come into play.

Blockquote
Twenty whats?

[Homaclese]

@Linuxoid

We had one player in the alliance who constantly bought crystals and often made х10 calls. And he ON ALL wars and ON ALL Titans always took the first place, though his level is not much higher than mine!

Blockquote

Your friend is a much better player than you

[Homaclese]

I have 5 mono teams I use for raids, between 3.9 and 4.1k TP. I win roughly 80% of my raids overall. With my newly formed blue mono with C Kiril and normal Kiril I have been winning about 95% of my raids. Almost all of my opponents are 200-400 TP higher than my teams (I can take on higher, but I want to maximise my raid wins so I avoid those, or Tel teams). How am I consistently winning at at least 80% with weaker, mono teams if what you are saying is true? I have been running mono for at least 6 months now. Why has SG decided to spare grant me consistent winning tile boards? And by winning tile boards I mean those with 3+ tiles in my color. 0, 1 or 2 are basically write-offs. 9+ are usually instant wins. 3-5 need some luck and some clever work to turn them around and 6-8 are usually wins as long as you don’t stuff up

[gingerhuny]

@Linuxoid

If you want more evidence, ask the developers for the source code!

@Linuxoid

Also, we will never get direct evidence due to the fact that the source code of the game is closed, and the developers will never open it!

Even if someone will show you source code, something tells me, those who don’t believe a thing despite all the evidence, will find some reason to deny what the source code might tell you…
I’ve tried to prove above, that you don’t need source code to conclude that what we all observe is random, because it can be reproduced by anyone with basic programming / excel / similar or other skills…

But since few keep insisting on seeing the source code… I am curious what will you have to say about it, even if you see it. Do you know how to read code? or are you going to hire someone to read it for you? If you can’t read code yourself, do you really trust anyone else to interpret it for you?

[gingerhuny]

@gingerhuny

color ChooseInitialElementForPosition(int i, int j) {
  ArrayList<Integer> possibleColors = new ArrayList<Integer>();

  for (int k = 0; k < colors.length; k++) {
    possibleColors.add(colors[k]);
  }

  if (1 < j) {
    if (grid[i][j - 2].Fill == grid[i][j - 1].Fill) {
      possibleColors.remove((Object) grid[i][j - 1].Fill);
    }
  }

  if (1 < i) {
    if (grid[i - 2][j].Fill == grid[i - 1][j].Fill) {
      possibleColors.remove((Object) grid[i - 1][j].Fill);
    }
  }

  int index = (int) random(possibleColors.size());

  return possibleColors.get(index);
}

I do not expect you to trust me (Again, I am in no way associated with SG), but the code I shared above, should be pretty close… and it gives pretty much similar results, per my observations (some stats I also provided in prior post)… and I also shared few screenshots in prior post…

@gingerhuny

I picked red for my mono attack -

Hmm… I wonder why my code is not giving me enough red tiles…

Next round, let me pick green -

Oh no… not again… Is my code biased?

Blue seems the way to go on this next batte -

Only one match of three tiles? Sigh
Anyway, one match of 3 tiles is not enough to make me happy… and I’ll soon forget it…

Well, at least I don’t need to look at SGG code (even if I can), because I can see this happening with my own code… portions of which I shared above… Hope that point is clear, about SGG code being closed.

[Linuxoid]

I have already expressed my final opinion: boards are not random, who pays a lot of money and buys a lot of crystals, he receives very often both good heroes, and materials, and good boards! Whoever doesn 't buy crystals or buys little gets the same thing, but very rarely! It is business!
As one Russian poet said, “One is a bagel, the other is a hole from a bagel”
You want - agree with it, you want - no! We have democracy everywhere, and everyone has the right to their own opinion!

And since I don 't get anything from this game, I won 't dig into someone else 's source code for free for some unnecessary evidence! If you need this evidence, pay me money, and I will conduct a deep independent investigation, attract professional programmers, and on the basis of the results of the investigation I will provide you with a detailed report on whether or not the boards are random in the game! But this investigation will cost several million dollars! You are ready to pay?

[gingerhuny]

Here is another example -

I went with 4 red, and 1 yellow…
Looks like a horrible starting board… no?
But out of 35 tiles, 6 are red, and 6 are yellow…
How is that not expected for a random board, in your book?
And I have independently tested it for millions of boards…
What I see in game, seems totally expected to me (for a random board)…

Which is why I can also tell you, that skill also matters.
Case in point - AutoPlay seems to be poor at playing compared to us humans… Wouldn’t you agree?
Similarly, every human doesn’t play equally well either… (no offense meant to anyone).

Per my simulations (and understanding), for example, randomly switching any possible pair of tiles would destroy on average of 6 tiles (any color) per turn. If you play best possible move, the number can be as high as on average 25 tiles (any color) destroyed per turn (yes, 25, because of cascades)… But a typical human would not be able to play at that level of efficiency… and depending on your skill, would destroy tiles somewhere between those numbers… Obviously affecting the outcome of your battle as well.

And also note, that average is 25 for best possible moves, over millions of games / boards played.
There are still bad boards, where no one can do much… and there are good boards, where if you play the right move, cascades can lead to quite a lot of tiles being destroyed… but in the end, if playing best possible move, all averaging to 25 max tiles destroyed per turn.

PS - And yes, I can play match 3 in this app all I want
It is a real functional app.

[Mothra]

Random, but functionally dependent on element choice in an offense, but those distributions are still governed randomly.

Selective randomness.

[gingerhuny]

What do you mean by that? :o
I am completely baffled…
I know I have not implemented any “selective randomness” in my app…
And I get same results…

There is no supporting evidence for claims of selective randomness…
If anything, the videos / screenshots posted are selective…

Nothing beats, several hundreds / thousands of data points collected by community…
and for me, personally I can say (I understand if you don’t trust me)… having done millions of simulations, there is nothing in game, which is out to cheat or deceive you.

May I suggest, it will be in your best interest, if those who worry about SG trying to cheat them, focuses their energy on improving their match making skills… (as mentioned above, anywhere between 6 tiles per move from auto play, to 25 tiles per move - all on average).

[Mothra]

The larger sample size is narrowed and becomes selective. Essentially, Random Number Generators for tile colors fall into a pool of simple algorithms (like the summon portal with a single sample size) several times over with several sample sizes that is dictated based on element selection in the offense. Your data cannot disprove that.

In fact, your data actually supports that.

I’m not saying Small Giant is trying to cheat anyone. They still use random number generators to create the initial boards, but they aren’t just going to hand stronger opponents over to weaker ones in every raid hence lousy boards and continuing lousy boards over half the time just like a bad summon in the Tavern of Legends. They aren’t just going to hand over a former HOTM in the Legends portal to the same person 9 out of 10 times. They aren’t going to hand out great boards to favor a color stack 9 out of 10 times either.

[gingerhuny]

@Mothra

that is dictated based on element selection in the offense. Your data cannot disprove that.

In fact, your data actually supports that.

How does my data supports that? In code I shared above, there is no use of offense colors, what so ever? I know what I coded… There isn’t any relationship with offense colors, in my code… Trust me for my own code

Here are 10 random boards generated from my code…
I didn’t cherry pick them… just 10 boards, one after the other…
At a glance, some seem bad, some seem average, and some seem good…

[Mothra]

Which is what we would expect to see in selective randomness. Again, your data disproves nothing.

[gingerhuny]

@Mothra

Again, your data disproves nothing.

Yes… I see it now… And yes, my data / argument is not 100% absolutely water tight…
It does leave few, perhaps several other possibilities unaddressed…

Sorry about that… and thanks for taking time to read my posts… and posting your responses…
It was a learning experience for me, and may I add… an eye opener…

Thank you!!

[KCKain]

You are wrong; the game has all shields programmed in advance way before all of your attacks. Look at the recent scandal: Beta players can know the boards in advance and set up their attack teams for better results. The youtuber Mr.Spok made a video about that.

[Mothra]

Perhaps if you conducted more random testing based on changes in numbers of a specific colored hero in an offense? The percentage favorability in a 4-1, 3-1-1, 2-1-1-1, 3-2 (desired stack majority), 2-3 (desired stack minority) and Full Rainbow. I wonder if those green tiles would become less favorable in more random samples with an increase in numbers of heroes, who are green. The theory is that more randomness will exist more times in the full rainbow and with the greater the number of heroes in the color stack, the RNGs will produce favorable tiles less and less more often over multiple trials.

[gingerhuny]

@KCKain

You are wrong;

Not sure who you are addressing
But I know I did read about it, and saw the video… incidentally
Ain’t I glad… SG is not my bank

[Mothra]

I’m glad that worked for a few players. Proving boards are pre-generated from a very small and isolated number of players proves nothing for the larger base.

[Guetoplaygamer]

After years of playing!
It is very evident that the stones are not random!
It is also evident that there is an added difficulty in the attacks in the war.
Another very evident thing is the items won in chests, if you don’t play for a while, the prizes get better!
And the chance of winning items, before a promotion is much greater!
I am almost believing that the algorithm works individually, learning about each player.
But there is no way to know that. Unaudited games like online casinos.