⚖ Hero Balance Discussion: Khufu

I faced quite a lot of these teams in the last few weeks, with Khufu and a mana booster. And you only need Xnol or Ludwig to ignite Khufu, so you don’t need all three of them.

Of course mana boosters make a difference, as they can make a slow hero as devastating as Khufu average or very fast. So please explain why it’s not sound to point that out.

And even if he only hits two, that still means that 3 out of 5 heroes is dead.

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With the power creep as fast as it is, there are now many combinations of heroes that can basically eliminate 3 heroes after charging with just 6 tiles. There are now also combinations that can eliminate a whole team in 9 tiles. I mention that to add some perspective relative to khufus skill.

A chain mechanic by design is simply not syngergistic with slow mana speed. Sir roostley, who has the same chain mechanic but a faster mana speed, is already described by some as rarely hitting all.

However, it’s likely that none of what I’ve said is comforting to someone whose whole team has been eliminated by khufu, I’m sure they will keep thinking of khufu as another AOE hero with no significant drawbacks.

I agree that khufu is decent on defense, and to some he is insanely/unfairly dominant. But collectively considering khufu as a whole, in the current landscape of power-creep, he is far from overpowered.

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Overpowered doesn’t mean indestructible, it means too powerful. Khufu is too powerful as he is now, especially with the buff to the passives.

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I think this response is missing the point of why some think he is over powered. It is the destruction of an otherwise healthy squad that frustrates people. Your argument seems to be based on the premise that people are usually struggling in a raid (ie at least one dead) when a defensive khufu goes off, making him less potent. Roostley is relatively irrelevant as he never wiped out a healthy team when he went off.

So again, the arguments are not that he is unbeatable - of course he can be killed before he goes off, or blocked, etc in some fashion.

Out of interest, if the next iteration of khufu is a hero that bypasses enemy def buffs and resists ailments or mana reduction (not overly far fetched with the current rate of power creep), are you still fine with the hero as long as they are slow speed and a chain hitter? Because at this stage the majority of arguments for khufu not being particularly strong is simply centred on those two things - slow and chain mechanic. Where as the argument he is too powerful is centred around him being close to an insta death to all hero in situations where the team is healthy.

Very few are arguing he is unbeatable

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Sir Roostley is not nearly as strong as Khufu. Khufu is like firing an elite sniper on each target, so even if he chains through to one or two heroes he’s still wrecking havoc. So it matters much less if the chain is broken.

Kinda funny to compare several years heroes with 2-3 months old heroes. On paper, he scraes you , in gaming he is not fully living up to expectations.

Look at the quality of upcoming heroes, Styx, Hunter etc then the heroes from S5 should be a stronger bridge to those.

I agree that we have different views, it is fine.

Ps. The slow speed make the chain mechanic is much more weak compared to other heroes with same chain mechanic. It is a high probability that only 2 heroes will be touched

Happy gaming

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Yeah well, I have a different experience. I got my complete team blasted to dust a few times. Sometimes I’m able to take him down before he goes off, but often not, most of the time because there’s Xnolface as tank. The problem is simply the enormous impact his special has, you can’t really recover from that. And yes, I’m aware that there a more heavy slow hitters out there and that there are more to come.

Okay, the slow speed make his chain even better :wink:

If you are meeting team with both Xnol and Kufu in the same team, and you can’t win ca. 50%, then there is a small probability that you are in the wrong raid? And not that the heroes are OP.

Just opening for other scenarios :man_shrugging:

Happy gaming

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The problem is that you load virtually any other hero next to Xnol and your chances of survival go up significantly. Khufu is OP when considered against his peers, chain mechanic or not, slow or not. So I don’t think he is in the wrong raid, I think Khufu is.

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I am conflicted with Slow heroes any more given the way the meta went in the game. Currently we have heroes like Nyx who at functionally Fast speed deals 300% damage to all while also applying a good defense down ailment to all. Along with her are a slew of Fast hitters that are potential game changers in a battle; Tethys, Hypnos, C.Guardian Panther, C.Alasie, etc.
…and there are still more high impact Fast characters coming along.

Given this, I feel like Slow heroes like Goseck and Khufu are needed. In my mind Slow characters need to be game changers when they go off to compensate for the ridiculous abilities of all these Fast heroes.

Stronger Slow heroes like them are needed, and Rush needs to go to compensate.

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You can make up all the scenario’s you want. I’ve been in high diamond for a long time and my alliance kills 13-14* titans, so I think that I know what I’m talking about.

And twisting my words so it suits your own narrative isn’t a nice move. Where exactly did I say his slow speed makes the chaining even better? Maybe you should re-read my post and figure it out.

Wait, all this time I thought overpowered equals indestructible and unbeatable… Thanks for correcting me guys!

Kidding aside, I don’t think OP means unbeatable and I don’t recall saying that.

It’s tiring having people misconstruing or saying I’m implying outlandish statements. I hope not to do the same to you and preface what I’m saying with a big “I might be wrong”.

I might be wrong, but some players seem to be using the singular premise “my healthy team was wiped out by khufu, that’s not fair! No hero should be able to do that!” as an “obvious” argument for his being overpowered. I don’t find that to be as self-evident as others seem to.

To be clear: “a healthy team left close to dead after only one hero’s special CAN be part of an argument that khufu is OP - BUT IN AND OF ITSELF, does not constitute a solid basis of an argument that khufu is OP imo Now some players might fundamentally disagree with me on this point, and to those players we will have to agree to disagree.

Because to me, “khufu killed my healthy team!” is not the same as “khufu can always be expected to hit all enemies and wipe out a healthy team”

What I hope I won’t have to explain again is that “with his special, khufu IS ABLE to hit all enemies”, but because of his slow mana and chain mechanic that is not guaranteed to be the case.

In judging a hero’s overpowered-ness, Im not sure how someone can discard that truth by just saying my whole argument rests on the “mechanic of his special” and “mana speed”. Thats like saying “an argument that particular car is super fast should be disregarded because it references engine power and aerodynamics.” I agree, there are other factors that lead to a hero’s strength and power, but surely the mechanic of a hero’s special and the rate at which his mana charges are very relevant factors.

One can look at the effect - “Khufu wiped out my 100% healthy team” and decide they had little to do with an unfair outcome completely dictated by khufu - thus calling him overpowered.

I suggest re-considering that scenario.

To put it simply, I’m saying:
-khufu does not always hit all enemies and does not always wipe out an entirely healthy team
-khufu has counters

If not for these 2 factors, I would agree he is OP.

In addition, I have previously said and will now restate:
-khufu is a better defender than he is attacker (no need to remind me of this)
-Context and Perspective Matter!! With the significant power creep, the term “OP” is being thrown around and used a lot more than it used to. When every hero is getting called OP, maybe…just maybe… they’re all just P.

Lastly, I spent way more time on this post than I wanted to. Hopefully my words and meaning don’t get twisted.

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Understood perfectly and I think the key area of difference/disagreement is agreed upon. Some will maintain that he is OP (or at least very poorly balanced) because his special can wipe out a healthy squad, even if it happens infrequently. Whereas some people maintain that a hero can’t be OP if that scenario only happens sometimes.

Cats and dogs - one side doesn’t have to be right (even though dogs are better).

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Maybe the solution come from new heroes with new skills such as red reflect, some skill that block chain damage, or very fast attack down. And the hero shouldn’t be hard to get

While that’s not happening I’m rescuing Alice and her -44% attack down from the bench

It made me realize that we don’t have great attack debuffers

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To be extremely honest i think khufu/Goseck/Pengi/Milena are too weak
They need more and more buffs
I think developpers should also delete every account that doesnt pay at least 1000 bucks per month
That way the $$$Comunity will give us “we parasite free to play community” their blessing and be finally not mad at us for not making them playing peacefully.

Alice (and her family) is great against the slayer family because the slayers unavoidably heal themselves every turn, so you get an indefinite attack down at fast speed.

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Taunt, Dodge, Blind and Ghost can all counter the chain in some form. Good to start utilizing hero’s that were benched before.

In general:
Khufu is really strong, other heroes are getting stronger as well. Is he overpowered? He probably is a bit atm. Does he hugely impact the current meta? I don’t believe so. I don’t come across him more than 50% of the raids. Also it’s not that it’s near impossible to win raids against him, yes he can wreck your team (like some others). The GTV & Xmas meta’s were much worse imo. No real need to nerf Khufu (and if they do maybe change the damage from 450% to 390% orso).

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Sure, Taunt is great in this situation.

The only one here that works more for chain vs an AOE is ghost - and there are few ghost heroes that people actually like to use (I use Luigi and I love him, but he gets more hate than love for most).

So there is nothing intrinsically there in the counters that makes chain less effective than any hit all hero. All those other counters are there for those guys too. So then it comes back to just comparing his special to theirs, where his special wins hands down. And with a larger margin than it should factoring in any speed differences

One more point is that many of the counters for him - attack down, mana freeze, mana slow, etc. - are counterable by his monk class, and that happens more often than I care to recount. I have used C Sabina to block Ludwig’s special many times only to find that Khufu has resisted and has had his mana fly through the roof with subsequent destruction ensuing. Or I use Tree to cripple everyone - except his attack, again with the result of my team being obliterated.

There is nothing more frustrating than carrying out a technically perfect execution of strategy and tiles only to fall on the wrong side of RNG and have him one shot your whole team. For any other hero that RNG factor is acceptable because a stray special is recoverable, but really that doesn’t apply in his case.

He should be made a barbarian, which is anyway far more in-line with the sheer power of his special.

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