🧪 Early Information on the February 2020 HOTM (Jean-François)

[Guvnor]

I wouldn’t ever say that Locke is a C grade.

If you got her you’d know.

[Mr_Style_Points]

Okay, let’s break this down.

@windcar

GM total damage per hero does not lose out to JF I reckon, and he deals damage faster, in terms of mana regen and number of DOT turns. It makes him with a lot lesser time to deal with than JF, don’t even mention about how GM can decimate green heroes like paper. In terms of damage per hero, he even lose out to Locke although Locke is slower in mana and we certainly hear no complains about her…

I’ll be glad to defer to one of the math whizzes here, but I’m pretty sure that the damage per hero actually favors Jean by ~100 or so. Still fairly close, but that is in addition to the fact that he hits 5 instead of 3. Also, considering his decreased total damage output, Gravy has to fire twice to match Jean’s output. Firing twice requires 50% more mana to charge, and the burn damage will be across the same 4 turns that Jean’s damage is. Yes, the instant damage is preferable, but let’s not pretend gravy’s initial hit is some kind of snipe and it is certainly not enough to offset roughly double the damage being done by JF. JF does lose out on single target damage to Locke, but you also must factor in a few things: 1) He still does more total damage than she does. 2) Fast generally trumps average on defense, which is why the current meta favors fast heroes above average speeds in most roles aside from tank, and if we are being honest he’s clearly the better tank of the two. 3) As you stated originally, damage applied faster is favorable as it is less risky and can potentially kill an enemy before they can hit, and Locke suffers from most of her damage being backloaded. This combined with her slower speed makes her more likely to be cleansed, and cleanses will disproportionately affect her damage output relative to Jean’s. Were her damage frontloaded on the targets or spread evenly like Jean’s that’d clearly be an improvement on her current state.

@windcar

Ok, it the is sub specials that makes him ‘looks’ OP, but then it is still up for debate since those sub specials looks very niche.

If he needs a nerf, it’s definitely a modification to those sub specials, and not to his main DOT. Perhaps, instead of sub specials to every member on the team, limit to himself and neighbors only?

No, I’m pretty sure that it’s the damage, and the rest is just icing on the cake. We have seen this argument multiple times before in this thread, but it generally comes from no-nerf advocates as a red-herring, rather than nerf advocates. I’m sure there may be a few who solely take issue with the defense buffs, but they’re far outnumbered by those of us in terror at the damage output.

@windcar

If his DOT is nerfed, no one would want him, think what will happen if Kingston was nerfed to 300% damaged?
Kingston has plenty of criticism before release, but currently no one says he is OP. In fact, Zeline is still much better than him in defence.

I’ll still be chasing him at anywhere from 400-450 damage, and still consider him better than GM at 450. The only difference is that if they drop him to this sane damage range I will probably stop at just one of him, instead of planning to put one of him on each of my war teams if he launches as-is due to his ridiculous power.
As for Kingston, you really may want to reconsider your argument as it really favors the pro-nerf crowd. Kingston actually WAS nerfed due to his criticism in Beta, and is in a VERY good place in the meta now.

@Mr_Style_Points

Move over, Gravy, there’s a new GOAT in town. When they hit Kingston with the nerf hammer I just hope they don’t render him unuseable. Effect to only target and nearby, and duration x 3 turns seems right

(I got the duration wrong, but was pretty damned close…)
As for Zeline being better this makes several cases for the pro-nerf crowd, and cuts against your own argument. First, your assessment of Zeline proves that higher initial per target damage is NOT what determines a better defender. Secondly, (particularly relevant since Zeline’s debuff can be cleansed OR overwritten, making her far more likely to have her effect countered than Jean) an effect from a fast mana hero that lasts 4 turns is not always or even usually going to be cleansed.
Since you quoted his guide as evidence of your claims, maybe @Anchor or someone who has heard from him can let us know what he thinks of Jean. I don’t view his claims as gospel, but respect his analyses and am curious what he thinks of the matter.

[FrenziedEye]

@windcar

GM total damage per hero does not lose out to JF I reckon, and he deals damage faster, in terms of mana regen and number of DOT turns. It makes him with a lot lesser time to deal with than JF, don’t even mention about how GM can decimate green heroes like paper. In terms of damage per hero, he even lose out to Locke although Locke is slower in mana and we certainly hear no complains about her.

Hold on a sec… Even if what you say is true are you forgetting that his DOT applies to 5 rather than 3?

[windcar]

Do not underestimate the gap between very fast and fast. To me, that gap is bigger than between fast and average, even if it is still only 2 tiles difference.
Even with high man troop, fast always most of the times means 3 sets of matched tiles, with 2 if any is ghosted.
Very fast only needs 2 sets of matched tiles, and 1 set if ghost.
I know the damage is to all party but he still loses to GM in that it takes 2 more turns to exact full damage and he will fire far less often than GM.

[Rigs]

If we’re talking ghost tiles, it would take gm 6 tiles to hit all and would only take jf 4 correct?

Then it’s pretty much just send more tiles into the gap while the defense literally just melts away

[PacificOcean]

If you really want JF nerfed then fine, reduce his damage, but at the same time make him very fast.

[DaveCozy]

@zephyr1

it could certainly be reasonable to use a higher number like 400 or 450.

I agree that this is a good ballpark for his damage to be at. Personally I suggested 500 but that may have been too generous. This still seems reasonably high enough to be threatening.

And FTR, I don’t mind that J.F. is meant to have higher DoT than Gravemaker. It’s common to see improvement when new heroes are released in games like E&P. I just think the improvement should be gradual, not astronomical.

[Rigs]

Lol really? Another gravemaker is your request?

I can’t even find the unflaggable words…

[FraVit93]

Gravemaçois Le Fay

Very fast, hits all with an undspellable DoT removed upon death.
800 damage /2 turns
the damage steals target’s life

start the fight with 100% mana

(balanced)

[amessofamind]

My issue with Jean isn’t with his damage or his defense buffs specifically but with him having both… either be a high dot hero with little other use or be a jack of all trades type that supports with some small damage and the defense flip.

[Scarecrow]

If they release him like this, he will literally be one hero army in any attack line-up. I truly don’t wanna see something like this. But I’m also saving my money for February, like I said in the beginning of this thread. Screw my C2P, good food, movies and shopping at mall, screw everything. I will spend my last dime trying to get him. And my guess, this is exactly the devs are trying in 2020, right from the beginning of the year. New record for sales… Money, money, money…

[yelnats_24]

@Scarecrow

If they release him like this, he will literally be one hero army in any attack line-up. I truly don’t wanna see something like this.

Is Jean doing like this in beta?

@windcar

To me, that gap is bigger than between fast and average, even if it is still only 2 tiles difference.
Even with high man troop, fast always most of the times means 3 sets of matched tiles, with 2 if any is ghosted.
Very fast only needs 2 sets of matched tiles, and 1 set if ghost.

That only apply in attack not defense.

[Scarecrow]

Lol, I’m not in beta. They don’t accept black sheep. Or scarecrows. Whatever

[yelnats_24]

I forgot to tag @zephyr1 in that question

[littleKAF]

I’d note that Jean was only in beta when this thread opened. He has not returned since. Beta is currently closed.

[Rigs]

Lol

You should post it in ideas as a new suggested hero, would be funny to see how many from this thread actually vote for it

[gregschen]

9 blue tank opponents in our last 47 wars. (8 times vs. red tanks, 13 times vs. yellow, 17 times vs. purple, 0 times vs. green)

However, in our last 16 wars, it seems to have shifted back to yellow-centric, and away from blue:

• 8 yellow
• 4 purple
• 3 red
• 1 blue

@zephyr1
@Mr_Style_Points

[Jiss]

There Sonia’s costume, damage dealer and cleanser.

[zephyr1]

@FraVit93

Gravemaçois Le Fay

Very fast, hits all with an undspellable DoT removed upon death.
800 damage /2 turns
the damage steals target’s life

start the fight with 100% mana

(balanced)

Costs 100 gems per use.

[Jiss]

Everybody talks about how overpowered he is and seem to forget about Ursena, she’s really changed the game. It seems like the game is moving more and more to the PtW side. Why don’t let the ftp and ctp have a chance over something that is more or les like c ok compared to heroes like Ursena