Yep, this is a “pro tip” strategy. If you are fighting a Titan whose special applies a defense debuff, then bring turtle or Dragon banners, which apply a defense buff, overwriting the debuff. Or in raiding, if you have Kiril ready to fire, but you see an opposing Gormek is also about to fire, consider holding Kiril to flip the debuff into a buff. Counter attack debuffs similarly, with bear or Dragon banners, or with attack buff specials.
@TKristensen, I use the calculation given by flyingsolow to estimate the stats of monsters and titans. And the formulas are the statistical estimates of excel.
Was the formula for defense special listed (i.e. special attacks against your team)? I see special, but I believe that may be offensive special only. Does anyone have the calc for specials being sent AGAINST your team (or is it same as specials you send against enemy)
I am not sure this was listed in the post, so I will list what I have seen: I have seen that the damage for type special type of ‘and minor damage to nearby’ (at least for Ramming pulverizer, and with special skills at 8) is:
(78x((att/def))^1.33) / 2
In other words, compute the normal damage, and simply halve it. i have seen this on farming levels, where there are 3 identical enemies. The damage to the 2 side enemies is 1/2 (with a little random variable to it). But is simple the normal computed damage value, reduced AFTER the normal computation.
I can not say that ALL of the hero attack types which are ‘minor damage to nearby’ are 50%, I have not studied. I simply have observed for ramming pulverizer, and my observation is ONLY from special level 8. It may be that this percentage is smaller if the special level is not fully maxed out. Knowing that would be ‘good’, but most people reading this post are smart enough to only run heros at skill level 8 anyway.
When I use ‘back of the hand’ comparison of teams (i.e. not sitting down and really crunching numbers), I give those heros 2x damage. The hit 1 of course get 1x. The ‘and nearby’ get 3x, and the ‘all’ get 5x. Those of course are best case estimates, since you might have to use a ramming pulverizor to kill a lone rigard in the corner who is charged (and alone), scoring only the main special, to make sure he does not heal everyone.
However, cudo’s to the OP of this thread. VERY VERY informative on how to compare/rate setting up attack teams, and their expectation of handling the defense team presented.
I believe the OP “Special skill” is the offense hit.
I believe so also. that is why I asked. It ‘may’ be that special offense/defense are same compute, and then the simple difference is offensive tiles, vs defensive strikes. But I wanted to ask as I also need the defensive special powers to better match teams for personal raiding.
One thing that is more tough to compute, is odds of a special actually going off, and if so, HOW many times it will be used, before the hero is killed. That is not something simple math can achieve, it takes looking at the entire team dynamics, how well they heal, how well they block how well they complement each other, and how well they counter the other teams special powers (AND biggest of all, how dam lucky you get in tiles, lol, which can not be computed upfront).
But having all attacker / defender attacking ‘real’ values in an easy to compute set of rules is critical to being able to give insight to these much harder to compute values (i.e. team help / enemy hurt specials vs opposite for enemy team).
I gathered the special skills of attack and defense.
In my calculations the values of the attackers are slightly lower than those of the defenders. But it is not statically significant.
So I think the calculation is the same.
EDIT : My apologies, the post of RedPython a little further allowed me to realize my mistake. Everything is calculated in fact with a single formula, it is the defense of the teams managed by the AI which is increased …
Wow. That is one BOSS spreadsheet! =-]
Hm… @SolemnWolf I’ve just seen this:
I’m not sure if I saw that part in the post with the examples Damage Calculation - #13 by SolemnWolf
How this info affects the formula?
That’s why the coefficient on the Defense damage is 101, while on offense it’s 78. Ogives that the exponent values are also different, benefitting offense.
Thanks for the clarification
A big thank you to you @RedPython!
I didn’t know anything about this increased defense of the AI-led team.
How does this information affect the formula? Take a look at the first post on this topic and you’ll know it!
Beautiful
(as only 20 characters can be)
Amazing. Thanks for updating the original (and now unified) formula.
Kudos to @RedPython for helping reveal the final key to this puzzle.
@SolemnWolf The new formula definitely makes more sense, tho is θ an evenly distributed random between e^-0.5 and e^0.5 or is it a curve such that it’s usually around 1? I think you had something about a Guassian curve in your older version of the post? Most low damage hits seem to be near each other in my experience, otherwise even for low damage hits near 30 we’d see more 15 and 58 damage hits when θ was 0.6 or 1.6.
So maybe a full version of the formula would be?:
100 * TileD * ((θ * AttackSum / DefenseSum) ^ 1.35) * ( ColorBonus + Crit)
Where:
AttackSum = (Attack Stats of a hero * Troop buffs) for each hero * Skill% * Combos * Buffs
DefenseSum = Defense Stat of target * EnemyBonus * Buffs
TileD = 1/3 if it’s a tile, else 1
Combos = 1, 1.1, 1.2 etc depending on cascading combo multiplier for tiles, else 1
Skill% = skill stat in decimal form, else 1 if not a skill
Buffs = 1 + Skill Buffs [only 1 buff/debuff of the same type can be active at once]
EnemyBonus = 1.2 if the target is an enemy of the active player in PVP, else 1
ColorBonus = 2, .5, or 1 for tile damage depending on color strengths/weaknesses, else 1 for non tiles
Crit = 1 if it’s both a tile and rolled a crit (base 0 chance, increased with troops / skills), else 0
θ = a random number between e^-0.5 and e^0.5 with a Guassian curve distribution of σ^2=1
Note: The special effects of certain skills can change a number of these stats
Or did I mis-order something?
Edit: Fixed ColorBonus / Crit interaction via Kerridoc’s and SolemnWolf’s help. Thanks!
The way you incorporate the crit bonus is wrong. The crit bonus is color-blind. The right hand terms of the equation should be (colorBonus + Crit) where Crit = 1 if crit, 0 otherwise.
Now I know exactly what happened here, other than my poor judgment that I can defeat this team and pressing the attack button. Thank you @SolemnWolf for this great efforts.
You faced an all yellow team with ONE purple and to make it funnier he was a healer
It was Sartana ,… I believe.
But I killed her… Rawr!
I’m saying on YOUR team!