⚔ [11 Jul, 2021] - 116th Raid Tournament - 4* Bloody Battle, No Fire/ Red

[ferg]

@u2371

but now I have Guardian Falcon

Wilbur and falcon is a great great team, use them with another red in a 3-2 or maybe 4-1
stack and you need maybe one red match after firing those two to kill the whole team if you get a little bit lucky.

@u2371

never try Mist vs Wilbur

I really like my mist, but me too never tried her against wilbur, I want him to fire for the spirit link and than flip the defense. Works better for me than trying to prevent it or dispel it.

@u2371

About against aggressive lower defense tank like C Tiburtus, I also have problem against them if I have bad board

Yep those kind of tanks are the ones I really hate, tibs c, li (can be extremely annoying with her manacut), pretty much every slow Aoe during rush, but also outside of rush most of the time, if I don’t kill it before it fires I’m dead.

@u2371

who do you use to fight this defense, C Kelile - C Tiburtus, Wilbur, C Wu Kong, Jack O’Hare , in bloody battle no blue ?

Yeap that’s a hard one.
Would probably try red - dark, with wilbur, falcon and one red with a lot of health and high attack , would maybe try Kelile c and tiburtus c and proteus. Or maybe only two red and 3 dark with tibs c and 2 proteus.
There I have everything I need. Either red or dark stones it looks good, if I get red I can flip both sides defense and with Falcon I make some heavy stone damage after it.
If I get dark tiles I can flip the defense too and with 2 proteus I can block the whole team, so my own defense down is not that bad only reciving slash attacks.
If both defense down heroes on my side dye, I still have proteus and Kelile with dot, so there wilbur with his def + doesn’t help against this sort of damage.

If the board is good I win, if it’s mediocre I will either try to kill the right side with the green and yellow heroes with stones, or like if it’s bad, I will dump tiles into wilbur and hope that the board will change with time. Wilbur is one of the few where I can do that, if there would stay tibs c or li I would be dead after the second time they fire, wilbur can fire every round and it doesn’t change anything at that moment. Of course if wilbur fires and I charge the Aoe heroes on both sides I’m also dead, but wilbur alone can’t really kill me unlike some other tanks.

[Slobix]

@rho

Already got attacked once and won.

Mine is at 2-1, but was attacked by respectably strong players, so it could be good in the end.

[schm00nola]

5-0; 2-2 so far; 3227, 1%
No green tanks was unexpected.
Boril, cBoril, cbTiburtus, cRigard, and lbSapphire

[u2371]

@ferg

I really like my mist, but me too never tried her against wilbur, I want him to fire for the spirit link and than flip the defense. Works better for me than trying to prevent it or dispel it.

Me too. Mist may be my new permanent member of my daily raid attack team and 4* / 5* tournament However, I think Mist vs Wilbur is pretty risky. If you fire Mist before Wilbur fire, you are very likely to win but if Wilbur fire before you can fire Mist, you are very likely to lose.

@ferg

Wilbur and falcon is a great great team, use them with another red in a 3-2 or maybe 4-1
stack and you need maybe one red match after firing those two to kill the whole team if you get a little bit lucky.

The main problem of Wilbur + Falcon is low attack. Both heroes have low attack. x4 may enough to kill the whole team with a little bit lucky good board but x3 is very unlikely to happen. However, 4-1 isn’t work well in bloody battle. And yes, 5-0 is risky.

@ferg

and one red with a lot of health and high attack , would maybe try Kelile c and…

I don’t think C Kelile is the one red with a lot of health and high attack

But yes, I think you team Wilbur - Falcon - C Kelile/Proteus - C Tiburtus - Proteus will work pretty well against that defense as you say . I don’t most people will have x2 Proteus with high emblem. I think some people may have x2 Proteus, Proteus with high emblem and one with no emblem. But I think C Kelile is better than second Proteus. Wilbur and Falcon alone aren’t enough to do much damage even with both lower def and lower element def if there aren’t a lot of red tile. However, Wilbur increase defense will make you survive longer to charge purple. But the problem is you still can’t kill anyone, if C Tiburtus fire and C Wu Kong or Jack O’Hare fire after him. They will do big damage. It will be pretty challenged if you can charge C Tiburtus and Proteus before enemy C Tiburtus and C Wu Kong or Jack O’Hare fire or not

I don’t know have many red tile do you need to take down the whole team in case of you use x2 red stack with lower def and lower element def on tank flank. I think the tile damage will be at most 400 or 80 per each enemy which I think you need at least 10 or more red tile in 4 turn (and before C Tiburtus and C Wu Kong or Jack O’Hare fire) to win which will be pretty challenged (And yes, if you can charge your purple before enemy C Tiburtus and C Wu Kong or Jack O’Hare fire, you are very likely to win ).

Overall, I think the best defense in 4* bloody battle is Wilbur tank with aggressive flank and wing. You may lose even you have moderate board.

[Vonos1982]

This is a very entertaining conversation… against a stated def team I would probably go red mono with Wilbur (and Boldtusk, Falcon, Scarlet and Sumle) and hoping for a good board or just go 3-2 green-red with Boldtusk and Wilbur being the reds and c.Melendor, Hansel and Caedmon being green…

Or just Yurple the way through with Cyprian, Proteus, c Tiburtus, LiXiu and Gretel or Jackal…

[u2371]

@Vonos1982

with Cyprian, Proteus,

Wilbur tank will ruin your Cyprian’s counter

[rho]

@u2371

I have a question who do you use to fight this defense, C Kelile - C Tiburtus, Wilbur, C Wu Kong, Jack O’Hare , in bloody battle no blue ? (In my opinion, it is the best defense in 4* bloody battle no blue )

Ametrine x2, cKelile, Scarlett, cCaed

Double Ametrine has served me very well last 4* no blue buff boost against the sea of Wilbur tanks.

The idea here is if I can’t dispel, then if I get red tiles I can at least get some DoT going which bypasses Wilbur’s BS, and Scarlett’s attack down also makes the flanks less scary. cCaed for cleanse despite weak color because it’s important.

I typically use only fast heroes for bloody battle since you can’t afford to play the attrition game with no healing allowed.

I guess could drop Scarlett for Protreus for double the amount of DoT and some mana control, but then I need a slightly above average board for it to work.

[Vonos1982]

Are you sure? The Counter attack damage has got nothing to do with share damage… AKA a counter damage cannot be “shared” same as dots or bombs for example…

Unless I am completely wrong…

[ferg]

@u2371

I don’t think C Kelile is the one red with a lot of health and high attack

she is new (at least newly lvled) so I don’t have her stats in mind…

@u2371

. I don’t most people will have x2 Proteus with high emblem

I definitely don’t have it, mine are both without emblems. But this team still works, use it regularly in 4* tournaments.

[ferg]

@Vonos1982

AKA a counter damage cannot be “shared

And that’s the reason why it doesn’t work.
Give me some time, I wrote something about that somewhere in the past, maybe I will find it

Edit:
Thought there was some more but only found that @Vonos1982

Question: Elena plus Wilbur and Counterattack

And here why it is never a good idea to pair counter attack with spirit link. [Screenshot_20210310_171903_org.videolan.vlc] Received damage around 1600hp. Mok hits all 3 and they counter. [Screenshot_20210310_172348_org.videolan.vlc] And now he receives only 170Hp, that’s only a 1/10 of the original. Don’t get confused, the 48 and 52 are from the spirit link when he hits the green monsters beside him, only the 41, 66 and 67 Hp are damage from counter attack. [Screenshot_20210310_174618_o…

[Vonos1982]

I am all up for education!

But I was envisioning slashes coming towards a defense - downed team (Wilbur) where 60% of the damage bounces back…

[WaVe]

Offense: good start with 5-0.

Defense not doing good, after a few weeks were I was able to put up a A-grade defense. Perhaps should have switched marcel and almur. Oh well, can’t be right all the time. D at 0/3

Summary

[Vonos1982]

@ferg
@u2371

Thank you!

I see the point a counter attack hero getting “diluted” hits and being less effective!

I will remember this in the future!

The Counter for Wilbur is apparently himself, a good red or green stack… Well blue is obvious but we are talking about a Non-blue format… I would still field a Cyprian if Bloody battle… From the common purples Rigard and Sabina are out so only Cyprian, Merlin and Proteus left if going Purple heavy… (and Ameonna and Stonecleave or whatever is the purple hiding lad …)

Since I do not have any Nijii to support my purple stack …

:lol:

[rho]

Day 1
O: 5-0
D: 1-0 (uh oh, @slobix effect )

No easy autofills even on day 1, in fact already fighting cap teams with LB heroes from match 3 onwards! Used exclusively (c)Caed, Hansel, Mist, Marcel, Almur, and Griffin. Actually only used Marcel in one match since I realized average speed doesn’t sync well with fast heroes especially when you want Marcel to fire before hitting them even harder with specials, or the board just dries up after 3 matches.

Went 3-2 for 4 matches, then last match against a cBoril+20 LB tank decided it was probably a good idea to go 4-1 because look at this hunky dwarf:

That’s Heimdall level defense stats. x_x
Figured probably needed the combined power of at least a 4 stack for tile damage, so went Caed-Almur-Hansel x2-Mist

As for the team itself:

Was almost tempted to go purple against cLi Xiu, but decided in the end getting rid of cBoril so I could start ghosting was more important. Opening board not too many green tiles, but spotted a diamond that was 3 moves away and that basically set the tone. With Almur’s debuff, even Hansel does 400-500 damage with his special, and Caed hits like Marjana so it was instant death to the right side. cGrimm got tiled out in short order, so it was just cLX vs my full team. Should be easy right? Get this, she dodged 3 specials consecutively. If I still remember my statistics right, that’s a 0.8% probability event, so statistically I’m more likely to pull a 5* than this happening.

Well whatever, the specials didn’t do damage but Hansel’s witch killer proc’d, so just kept sending tiles into her to make hit herself, and eventually some green tiles came up to finish her off.

Have to say, if heavily stacking green one should absolutely bring Almur, his special bare tickles but that -54% elemental debuff is simply brutal. Specials do heavy damage, tiles do ridiculous damage.

Defense is 1-0 for an A but a serious case of the @Slobix effect since it could’ve gone either way, and is the difference between an A and an E. Seriously SG please fix this, it’s quite ridiculous.

[Slobix]

@rho

Have to say, if heavily stacking green one should absolutely bring Almur, his special bare tickles but that -54% elemental debuff is simply brutal. Specials do heavy damage, tiles do ridiculous damage

Yup, I wanted to test Almur+Marcel in raids, and this is what happens against 4700+ defences. Absolutely a deadly combo! Those 2 are 4* heros ffs.

[rho]

All I’m seeing is everybody disappearing in a puff of green smoke.

Well Almur is a 4*, but as @u2371 said, Marcel is really a 5* masquerading as a 4*.

[u2371]

@rho

Ametrine x2, cKelile, Scarlett, cCaed

Double Ametrine has served me very well last 4* no blue buff boost against the sea of Wilbur tanks.

The idea here is if I can’t dispel, then if I get red tiles I can at least get some DoT going which bypasses Wilbur’s BS, and Scarlett’s attack down also makes the flanks less scary. cCaed for cleanse despite weak color because it’s important.

x2 Ametrine charge 2 will hit hard and dispell Wilbur’s buff. C Kelile bypass Wilbur’s buff. Scarlett and C Caedmon will make you survive longer. But the problem of you team is “lack of lower defense and mana controller”. They may work well even without lower defense and mana controller.

@rho

I typically use only fast heroes for bloody battle since you can’t afford to play the attrition game with no healing allowed.

I don’t like average heroes when I fall in to a situation that I can get 3 move with 9 tile and can’t find the last 10th tile

@rho

I guess could drop Scarlett for Protreus for double the amount of DoT and some mana control, but then I need a slightly above average board for it to work.

I think Scarlett is better than Proteus in your team. If you use Proteus, you are pretty rely on purple. However, if you can get 10 purple before any flank fire, you are very likely to win. If you want to use Proteus, replace C Kelile with him is better. C Kelile alone can’t kill anyone if there is share damage and she doesn’t make you survive longer but Scarlett will make you survive longer

@Vonos1982

or bombs for example…

I am not sure if damage from battle item can be share or not. As far as I know, damage from S4 gem can be share even it is a fixed damage.

@Vonos1982

I see the point a counter attack hero getting “diluted” hits and being less effective!

Yes, the counter damage will be divide by number of heroes with share damage. And share damage is buff, so you also can’t remove it by yourself. That mean Wilbur is one of the best heroes to counter and counter damage heroes

@Vonos1982

From the common purples Rigard and Sabina are out so only Cyprian, Merlin and Proteus left if going Purple heavy… (and Ameonna and Stonecleave or whatever is the purple hiding lad …)

Don’t you have Tiburtus ?

@rho

Should be easy right? Get this, she dodged 3 specials consecutively . If I still remember my statistics right, that’s a 0.8% probability event, so statistically I’m more likely to pull a 5* than this happening.

I used to have a situation like that but is much worse. It happen in one of my war attack, it is a good board and I end up with 5 vs undying Tyr. I remember that he revive about 13 times in total (2 from skill and about 11 from Fighter class). He die every turn by my x3 sniper and DoT from Marjana but he revive and gain mana each turn until charge skill and almost charge second time. I take more than a minute to just kill him completely.

@Slobix

Yup, I wanted to test Almur+Marcel in raids, and this is what happens against 4700+ defences. Absolutely a deadly combo! Those 2 are 4* heros ffs.

Could you try Almur+Buddy+Marcel ?

@rho

Marcel is really a 5* masquerading as a 4*.

I think SG forget that he is 4* and buff him like he is 5*

[Slobix]

Day 2:

O: 5-0 (10-0). Looks like I found my winning team for this week. Almur-c.Chao-Marcel-Mist-Jack. Works really, really well.

I mean, look at me:

D: 3-1 (A) - so far so good. If these 3 greens work well as in offense, could be a decent result.

[Liam_K]

Boards were more generous today, and still facing some teams with healer/s in them. Same 4G-1P team from yesterday with a flipping Caedmon.

Defense made quite a comeback from an inauspicious 0-4 start to end Day 1 at 5-4 (B), and is currently at 10-5.

Day	Offense	Defense	Score
1	4-1	5-4 (B)	3561
2	9-1	10-5 (A)	6805
3
4
5

Best of luck with your battles everyone

[Slobix]

Off topic, how do you make this table?
Would be good to track and report HA10 results this way.