Where is the game going?

Same here, I think season 3 is one of the best. I remember how I was stuck in my property in Cyprus here playing it all weekend. My Mom was bringing me food 3 times a day and some snacks and drinks.

This is a canard, folk wisdom with no data to support it.

Telluria’s existence is a problem in every phase of the game. In fact, Telluria has removed 90% of the PvP game.

I’m glad you said that :smile:

As the post you replied to is before balancing, lets look at the numbers before balancing:

Telluria without Vela: 11.2%
GM: 11%
Telluria with Vela: 19.6%

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Exactly. The data show that the folk wisdom is based on nothing. Telluria is a problem 100% of the time, even in “nerfed” form.

Game over.

:joy: :joy: :joy:

Without Vela, Telly is comparable to GM. With Vela the win rate of the defense increase from 11.2% to 19.6%, almost doubled.

For you.

Anyway, I am a Vela owner, not Telly owner.

There’s nothing else to say, because people aren’t using her in her weakest form.

Telluria’s problems extend WAY beyond the raw numbers of ONE forum member with an unlimited roster.

Did you read that? Near the top is not the top.

People use Telly sometimes without Vela, because not all have Vela. Vela got trashed in the forum when she was released so not that many people attempt to pull her.

I think that is for @IvyTheTerrible to clarify, but from what I know, she doesn’t have every heroes.

I personally know that fighting Telly is harder when Vela is flanking her. So your claim by ONE do not have any basis.

Telly without Vela has destroyed the game.

Maybe I should redirect you to this thread:

There are some people there who ask that Telluria be buffed into its first form.

Hello, I hope I can be of some assistance by answering a few questions and making a couple of points.

My Roster

I don’t have Grazul, Zimkitha, or Guardian Kong, meaning I lack three of the (in my opinion) four best heroes to counter Telluria. I do have Mitsuko (who is also in the top four Telluria counters, again - my opinion), but I would disagree with describing my roster as “unlimited.”

FWIW, I usually rely heavily on a purple stack to beat Telluria: Rigard, Proteus, and sometimes Domitia. Hardly an inaccessible core.

I’ll acknowledge that others, with different rosters, will obviously post different results against Telluria and that will naturally shape their own opinion of her.

Telluria Raid Data

I tend to feel that I have worked hard to accumulate and present the data and that it speaks for itself. But as it appears we have two posters drawing essentially opposite conclusions from it, I will weigh in:

  • Telluria is clearly VERY powerful as a tank. The only sensible way to talk about a tank in this game is in comparison to the other tanks in this game, so I view this as largely inarguable. Her numbers in basically all scenarios rate her as the top tank in the game, often by a good bit.

  • “Overpowered” is a much more subjective term. If you think Gravemaker or Kunchen or Guinevere is an overpowered tank then clearly Telluria should also pass the OP standard.

  • Personally, I do NOT think Telluria is overpowered (and actually posted that I didn’t find her OP even before the rebalancing, though I was still formulating my opinion - as I re-evaluated I found myself leaning more and more towards thinking she WAS OP. I don’t know where I would have landed on that, since that time period drew to a close with the rebalancing).

  • Thought experiment: let’s say original Telluria + Vela beats me 20% of the time. Is that OP? I think this is a fair and important question with a NON-obvious answer. Certainly it’s vastly more powerful than other heroes in the game. Does vastly more powerful mean the same as OP? What win rate should we expect, as an attacker? What win rate conveys that the tank is OP? As an attacker we have so many advantages and win at such a high clip that I tend to think my takeaway from all my raid data is simply that raiding, as an attacker, is OP. From that perspective, how can any tank be OP?

Stagnation

This is my personal opinion, but I know that it’s one that many other Diamond Arena raiders share from speaking to them:

The issue is not how much more powerful Telluria is than other tanks (nor whether or not she’s OP); it’s that defenses are stagnant because it’s clearly the most winning defensive formation right now and changing emblems is expensive. It is the repetitiveness, NOT the losing, that is the problem.

That lack of variety is harmful to the game, and even moreso in the context of war.

Post / Flame War

Well, I think I’ve now said enough that both parties can argue I support their position. :stuck_out_tongue: If this is to continue, I would challenge both posters:

@yelnats_24, I forget which of the one million threads about Telluria this was (I think the big one - the 4k plus posts one), but The Chef posted a number of times in there and hearing more about his thoughts was a big part of the reason why I was re-evaluating my ‘is Telluria OP or not’ thoughts. While it’s definitely NOT worth reading that thread, filtering it for The Chef and getting his perspective may be interesting to you.

@TheDayHasCome, I found this post very problematic:

There’s nothing else to say, because people aren’t using her in her weakest form.
Telluria’s problems extend WAY beyond the raw numbers of ONE forum member with an unlimited roster.

I already addressed the state of my roster. Two additional points:

  1. You said people aren’t using Telluria without Vela. That’s not true, but here you say it’s not worth talking about Telluria without Vela and then two posts later say:

Telly without Vela has destroyed the game.

So I’m confused. I suggest you to be more clear about what Telluria scenario(s) you find problematic and why. For example, with Vela, Telluria beats me 16.1% of the time. Do you feel that number is unreasonably high?

  1. You criticize the data presented by one person. In my posts about Telluria I have taken pains to emphasize that my sample size is limited and that it POINTS us towards certain conclusions, but does not prove things. If you feel there is not enough data then I encourage you to present your own. Right now you are criticizing yelnats’ lack of data to distract from the fact that you are presenting none yourself.
5 Likes

What is the challenge? :sweat_smile:

I also use those 3 heroes whenever I face Telluria, the other 2 is only Boldtusk and Marjana though…

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Hi Ivy,

I’m not critical of your data, and you’re right that your roster isn’t “unlimited.” If you felt personally attacked, then it was a fault in my writing. I take your data for what they are, and I’m glad you present them with good discussion.

Also, I didn’t say they weren’t using her with Vela, I said they weren’t using her in her weakest form. Even so, the fact that a hero AT WORST is comparable to the greatest heroes of all time AT THEIR BEST, makes conclusions obvious.

The fact that today, Tuesday, I was in “Top 25%” of the raid tournament and my first two matchups were Drake+20/GM+20/Tell+20/Vela+20/PurpleHotM+20, despite my team being not even close to that, makes conclusions obvious.

The fact that my mid-tier alliance routinely faces nothing but Tellurias war after war after war, makes conclusions obvious.

At this point, there’s no argument that Telluria hasn’t destroyed the game. Her power is irrelevant, her presence is toxic.

SGG is promoting at toxic environment.

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So at best means pre-nerf while at worst means post-nerf?

Telly Before Nerf (without Vela): 11.2%
Gravemaker: 11%
Telly After Nerf (without Vela): 10.9%

Without Vela, Telly is comparable to GM whether it is at best or worse form.

It is with Vela that Telly overcome GM by a landslide:
Telly Before Nerf (with Vela): 19.6%
Telly After Nerf (with Vela): 16.1%

So it is clear that Vela is what make Telly become so OP.

That is why I disagree with your post here:

I said Telly-Vela combo is OP but you cut it from your quote.

Can you look at the alliance leaderboard, what is the rank of your alliance?

It’s usually in the 2500-2600 range.

What about the war score? Mine is around 78k, usually it is against 1 Green Tank in every 3 wars.

It’s 200-something.,…

That is the total alliance score… just the war score… not counting the trophy score and titan score…

Our score is also around 80k.

Maybe your alliance is in streak of bad luck having to face Telly continuously… :sweat_smile:

“Six straight months of (totally random) bad luck” sounds like a good slogan for this game.

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