🧪 The Beta Beat (v23) [NOW RELEASED] – Sharing the Big Picture on What's Going on in Beta: Stronghold 22/23 & Alchemy Lab, New Challenge Event Heroes, New Knights of Avalon & Pirates of Corellia Challenge Events, Costumes, November/December HOTM

[zephyr1]

There may be other reasons, but I can see two obvious reasons not to support a dequeue:

1. It’s pretty complicated. They’d have to track which items you queued so they could undo transactions. And people would ideally probably want a selectable queue more than one that’s just first-in-first-out.

2. It would allow unspending Gems. Nowhere else in the game allows that, and I suspect they’re unlikely to ever add a feature with that.

Plus it’s just not super necessary. Just don’t queue so much.

[grzechol]

Unlikely to recruits, there’s no storage limit for battle items, crafting ingredients and ascension items. Hence no reason for creating long queues.

[Oliz]

Yeah, I think the issue of gems is a strong consideration here…, that clarifies it.

[Oliz]

Agreed, unlike queues on TC being due to storage limitations, the consideration for queues on AL may be different than that, it may be bordered on say effectiveness gained from uninterrupted transmutation of some material based on time versus the need to gain more shards within a specified period.

[zephyr1]

@StephenNap89

What has Beta feedback been like for the updated Lab?

I would say many people seem to like some of the general mechanics and the addition of Alkashards, but don’t think the costs make sense for actual use for most people. Some people also don’t like the Alkashards at all, seeing them as not addressing the main point of Alchemy Lab.

Several people, myself included, are also disappointed that you can’t convert within a given rarity, or from a higher one to a lower one. That makes it difficult to actually use the Alchemy Lab to make anything useful with its lower levels.

Some people have also suggested that the Alchemy Lab would be more useful if it unlocked earlier in the game, and had lower building/research costs.

Some people also questioned the motivations of the designers, at times with incendiary language.

For the most part, I wouldn’t say anyone has expressed strong satisfaction with the current design and costs, though some people think it’s closer to right than others.

I don’t think a release of the current design as-is would be likely to be very well received by most people, based on my impression of the feedback. But I do think it’s possible for sufficient changes to make it something most people would be reasonably happy with.

[grzechol]

Alchemy Lab was our hope to fix unbalanced items economy. If you get elemental chest and description says it contains great rewards, but you get your 380th battle manual, it’s deeply disappointing. Not only because you don’t need this item, but mostly because you can’t even sell it. It will stay in your inventory forever.

So now you can convert your battle manuals to something useful, but you won’t do that because you’ll have to spend gems. No f2p will spend 150 on that as well as most of c2p I guess.

I understand devs don’t want to give me too many unfarmable items. I’m fine with that. But why can’t I just exchange my tall boots for backpacks? Or midnight roots? Or anything useful? Devs please…

[grzechol]

And honestly, selling items in games isn’t rocket science. Go play any RPG from '90s. Monster drops something, you sell it for gold and spend your gold to buy a health potion from merchant.

[zephyr1]

@grzechol

Go play any RPG from '90s.

My reaction to Alchemy Lab’s first version was similar, that it made me think about RPGs I played in the 90s and early 2000s.

I suggested an idea for a complete reworking of Alchemy Lab after the first version, which combined the premise of selling items back with new additions to the game for questing and research, in the vein of old school RPGs.

At the least I was after the “convert my junk into a currency I can use for stuff I want” part of the equation.

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As I continue to contrast what I wish the design were with what it actually is, it’s been increasingly making me itchy to go play 90s RPGs or find a game with those sorts of questing storyline dynamics and game mechanics.

If I ever leave or significantly reduce playing E&P, that’s likely what’ll do it.

[grzechol]

Out of curiosity, what was your favourite RPG? Mine is Planescape: Torment. I’ve purchased the remastered version last year.
Sorry for offtopic

[StephenNap89]

Thank you. Hopefully they listen to feedback.

Does Stronghold 22 do anything now or is it still an arbitrary extender?

[Noble_Weasel]

@zephyr1

Some people have also suggested that the Alchemy Lab would be more useful if it unlocked earlier in the game, and had lower building/research costs.

This seems like a no-brainer. Why would you make players wait until SH 23 to fiddle around with 1- and 2-star items? They’ll be swimming in them (backpacks excluded) by then.

@zephyr1

As I continue to contrast what I wish the design were with what it actually is, it’s been increasingly making me itchy to go play 90s RPGs or find a game with those sorts of questing storyline dynamics and game mechanics.

If I ever leave or significantly reduce playing E&P, that’s likely what’ll do it.

We aren’t in any hurry for you to leave, but if you do, I endorse this decision for what to do with your free time!

[zephyr1]

@grzechol

Out of curiosity, what was your favourite RPG? Mine is Planescape: Torment. I’ve purchased the remastered version last year.
Sorry for offtopic

Umm, well you could maybe have guessed this, but I’m a big fan of old school Zelda, particularly Link to the Past. Secret of Mana is high on my list too. I’ve replayed both as an adult, and likely will again at some point.

I played a lot of RPG-ish puzzle/interactive story games as a kid too, like several of the Zork games, 7th Guest, Myst, etc.

Something like Planescape: Torment could land high on my list of things to try if I get to that point.

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All of that is off topic, of course, except that I really do think there are lessons to be learned from the mechanics in those games that could be translated effectively to E&P, and extend the game’s longevity, fun, and engagement.

E&P has been a game largely centered around hero acquisition and leveling — I’d like to see more ways to use those heroes as the game continues to mature, rather than just an endless stream of new heroes.

Despite the crappy loot, I actually really like Raid Tournaments for that reason, they give a new spin and new life to a lot of heroes.

Class Trials were an interesting addition on that front too, giving more use to heroes, and more reason to level ones you might not have otherwise.

To me, Alchemy Lab and the process of getting stuff you need could have been new avenues for usage of heroes too. I proposed adding Alchemy Recipes to the game as something you could quest for, collect, and level up. I was looking for the designers to add a whole new component to the game.

Instead, it looks like we’re going to get a building that I might never use, and if I do, it’ll just be for background grinding for some more Emblems every now and then.

I hope to see better from other additions to the game.

[gregschen]

On the topic of old school RPGs, while this game may not really even fit that definition, this convo somehow reminded me of Dark Sun: Shattered Lands. Anyone else here even HEARD of that?

[zephyr1]

@StephenNap89

Does Stronghold 22 do anything now or is it still an arbitrary extender?

It’s an abritrary extender. It looks like SH24 is likely to be too, since all indications are that additional building unlocks will be at SH25.

[Noble_Weasel]

@zephyr1

like several of the Zork games

I hereby request that Alkashards be changed to zorkmids! And that a new Hero of the Month be developed with the surname “Flathead”!

[StephenNap89]

I seem to be the only one upset about that, so I doubt it’ll be changed. Oh well.

[grzechol]

@zephyr1

E&P has been a game largely centered around hero acquisition and leveling — I’d like to see more ways to use those heroes as the game continues to mature, rather than just an endless stream of new heroes.

That’s a great point. After 13 months of playing I still enjoy the game but can’t see any long-term goal. Every day is alike: farming on map, raids, tourney, sometimes war, sometimes rare quest on auto, sometimes challenge event mostly on auto to get completion tier reward.
Get more heroes, get ascension items to level them to beat higher titans to get more items to level more heroes to beat higher titans…
It’s turning into endless and pointless grind.

@zephyr1

I proposed adding Alchemy Recipes to the game as something you could quest for, collect, and level up

Again, such recipes are quite popular in many games. I think costumes are somewhat closer to this concept, but not quite.

@zephyr1

Instead, it looks like we’re going to get a building that I might never use, and if I do, it’ll just be for background grinding for some more Emblems

Another great point. Shards were introduced as an add-on to the core AL functionality, but they have a chance to become main purpose of this building, like particular TC level are used mostly to stack food and recruits. Smell of bad design IMO.

And thanks for exhaustive response about RPG games. I’ve been playing different ones mostly, like Baldur’s Gate, Fallout and Fallout 2, Gothic, Neverwinter Nights and many more…

[grzechol]

Another reason why AL is broken. The core concept of “rarity” (stars) is that the higher rarity, the most valuable and demanded item. That’s why AL allows mostly conversions from lower to higher rarity and never from higher to lower. It’s like “convert many low value items into one with high value”.

And everything is fine except rarity in E&P doesn’t work this way. A couple of examples:

• 1* backpack and 1* clothes are much more wanted than 2* sharpening stone. Yes, you need that stone for TC20 but it takes 2 days to complete one training so you’ll never be short of sharpening stones. But you can burn literally any quantity of backpacks and rugged clothes hence you need much more of those.
• Farmable 3* items are completely useless as your surplus of those is growing and growing and growing. Again 1* backpacks are much more needed.
• A 2* mana potion is more valuable than 3* super antidotes. It’s because small antidotes cleanse like the super ones, and the increased healing isn’t worth much higher price.

It’s a great example how market economy works and how supply and demand influence value of goods.

But AL assumption “higher rarity, higher value” is more like communist economy where central government sets fixed prices and supply.

So, the Alchemy Lab just doesn’t do what players really need. And that’s sad, but not surprising as we already have completely useless TC levels. Smell of bad design again.

[FroggyRay]

Sorry to change topic, but from what I have heard about AL, I’m not interested in it at all - so do we have any word from beta about Hero Academy? That is the only thing I am interested in now.

Also to the poster before who talked about ways to expand usage of heroes instead of the same old grind… do y’all think they’d ever create a physical card game for this? I would absolutely love to collect cards and go to my local game shop to challenge people and enter in local tournaments.

[zephyr1]

@FroggyRay

so do we have any word from beta about Hero Academy?

It’s never been in Beta yet, so no, there’s no information available from Beta about it.

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@FroggyRay

do y’all think they’d ever create a physical card game for this?

It would surprise me a fair amount, particularly where games like MTG that started as card games have pushed more and more into digital versions. It seems like the opposite direction of where things have been heading. But I suppose it’s possible, at least.

I’m not sure how related to E&P it would really be, though, other than character reuse. I don’t think the core mechanics for match 3 or leveling heroes would translate particularly directly to a tabletop card game meant to be playable in a reasonable amount of time per match, so it would probably have to be a sort of unrelated game that took place in the same universe.