Raid Arena Opt-Out Proposal

[BigLordF]

I read long time ago in this forum that chest loot depends on your raid arena “at the moment you open the chest”. I distinctly remember the advice to make certain of being in the highest possible level when opening them, meaning even waiting to do so. Perhaps it was wrong but I haven’t debated it. I’ll be glad to stand corrected if that’s the case.

[TGW]

@BigLordF

1. The mere fact that monster chests and to some extent titan chests depend a lot on your raid arena show how clueless you are about my reasoning and perhaps even this game.

That’s interesting. I’ve never heard this.

Devs, please confirm?

Or is this yet another “fairly false forum fact”?

@BigLordF

2. The fact that according to you, and I quote “there are “players” in this game who have been inactive for months and are still holding onto diamond tier slots” shows there’s no reason to opt out to maintain a set level, even the highest one possible. Work on your defense and it will keep you at the level it deserves to be. No gimmick necessary.

I’ll give you this one. Defense teams hold cups. Absolutely no argument there.

@BigLordF

3. The unfairness is multi-fold but to put it simply, I find it unfair that every player so far had to deal with the grind and stress of reaching and maintaining diamond level to benefit from better loot (no matter how fantastic that concept is) and this proposal will allow people to skip most of the grind, create one decent raid team, throw a bunch of flasks, reroll until they get favorable matchups, get to 2551 trophies, uncheck a box and they’re guaranteed diamond level for life.

This is still based on your likely false assumption from your original point, yes? Okay.

@BigLordF

4. Trophy level is a significant factor of your alliance score. On top of that many alliances set a minimum level of trophies required for their members. Having an artificially high level of trophies is unfair both to your alliance members who will get tougher war matchups because of it, and also those who can’t join that alliance even though they have a better roster than you and deserve that spot more.

Trophy scores have absolutely nothing to do with alliance war score. So again. You are patently wrong. Next!

@BigLordF

5. There is already a feature called “Raid shield” which can be purchased with gems to provide the exact same thing.

These are not free.

@BigLordF

Lastly, please spare me your keyboard justice warrior crusade. If you want to debate what I write, you’re more than welcome. If you have questions, feel free to ask. But don’t make false assumptions to make yourself feel better or smarter.

I’m seeing a lot of false assumptions, for sure.

[Rigs]

Later i’ll see if i can find the info to back what i always thought to be

But from pure observation without data, my monster chests are random af. Anything from 50k hams/iron and up, no fixed amount of mat rolls, etc. So that’s the biggest tip to me that makes me question if they’re truly connected

[CaptainjaKCsparrow]

@BigLordF

I read long time ago in this forum that chest loot depends on your raid arena “at the moment you open the chest”.

I think it’s applicable only for the raid chests (the enemy chest)

I don’t see any reason for the raid tier to be a basis for determining the loots of the other chests.

[Rigs]

@TGW

These are not free.

But cup dropping is

I guess one easier maybe more sensible solution is to have the ability to just disable the wins/losses popup of your defense upon login?

Then you don’t know unless u specifically go to watchtower and look?

[Sernarok]

@CaptainjaKCsparrow

Your argument here has some erroneous assumptions, the most obvious of them being: If your watchtower is continuously attacked (which is not the case, realistically speaking, but still let’s say this is the case), then you won’t be able to harvest any food or iron from it .

This is your assumption when you made the following declarative statement:

Not at all, please read carefully before assuming my “assumptions”.

I know WT produces food and iron on a constant basis, so attacked or not you can harvest from it every hour or more.

@CaptainjaKCsparrow

Then probably it isn’t right to suggest that the OP should completely forgo those resources.

Why you think it’s not right to suggest that a player that wants to opt out of raids forgoes WT resources?

WT is an additional source of food and iron, in exchange of that you have to defend it or go out and attack other WTs in order to increase such resources.

What does not seem right is that someone skips the effort of defending their WT or attacking other’s, but still HARVEST its resources.

That is why I said “i don’t get attacked but don’t get food and iron either”, and I stand.

@CaptainjaKCsparrow

@Sernarok

Be my guest to take the idea and put it in a different thread

This is your proposal. Please don’t put the onus on another person.

I won’t post it, since I’m not interested at all in this. So, if anyone thinks it’s a good idea they can take it and promote it anywhere in the forum, like I said, I just think it’s more fair.

[BigLordF]

I haven’t paid attention to it. I know that the monster chest in my main account drops oftentimes over 200k iron or food while the one in my alt account never goes higher than 50k so definitely those two resources are tied to storage or tier. I can’t account for the rest because I don’t keep track and also because loot is generally awful anyway. I’d like to know for certain too though if I received good or phony advice.

[Sernarok]

@nevarmaor

I’m not clear that there is any difference between opting out and deactivating watchtower. Either way you are not available for raiding in attack or defense.

Deactivating WT means you opt out of raids and resources from WT, not just opting out of raids while still harvesting the precious WT resources, it also may work as a lock to avoid unfair play.

[nevarmaor]

Ah, I see. My assumption was that opting out of raids would cut you off from all raid-related content including watchtower.

[Sernarok]

@TGW

These are not free.

So is this where the problem is? Op wants it for free? poor argument TBH.

[Sernarok]

@nevarmaor

Ah, I see. My assumption was that opting out of raids would cut you off from all raid-related content including watchtower.

And this is why I don’t agree with OP, they want to be “stress free” from the “you lost X raids”, but keep their loot tier and WT production.

In my opinion, if you really, really want to opt out of raids, the trade off of losing all your cups and WT production should be a very reasonable price to pay in exchange of your solace and tranquility.

Now, with my single Aife suggestion, you lose your cups, rarely, but rarely get attacked, and your WT keeps producing (maybe the price to pay is being called a ***** player).

[TGW]

@Rigs

I guess one easier maybe more sensible solution is to have the ability to just disable the wins/losses popup of your defense upon login?

Then you don’t know unless u specifically go to watchtower and look?

My idea was just for people who don’t want anything to do with PvP to just have zero info altogether regarding raids and cups and whatnot…

But I suppose I should clarify. The original post did not come from me. The “keyboard justice warrior crusade” (kinda offensive? but okay) accusation? I’m just trying to defend friends of mine (both current and former). People who wanted to play the game casually without the PvP aspect.

Personally? Well I hate getting raided, but go ahead and raid me. If you lose - thanks for the cups. If you win? I might come back for you later, when I’m in the mood to draw some blood. Not usually my style - I’m a lover, not a fighter. But catch me in a bad mood? I’ll maul someone so badly, they’ll need dental records to identify the remains.

@Sernarok

So is this where the problem is? Op wants it for free? poor argument TBH.

sigh

No, this is not the main argument.

It’s not even my argument.

I’m just trying to defend players who don’t want to partake in the PvP aspects of the game.

Apparently the rest of you thrive on fighting, and don’t like the idea of other players voluntarily opting out of that. Your main arguments being: “if you don’t like fighting against other players, don’t play E&P!”

Right. Okay then.

ATTENTION ALL CURRENT AND POSSIBLY FUTURE PROSPECTIVE E&P PLAYERS:

E&P IS A COMPETITIVE P2W PVP GAME. IT IS NOT A SIMPLE MATCH-3 GEM GAME TO CASUALLY PREOCCUPY YOUR TIME WITH WHILE STANDING IN LINE AT THE BANK OR ON BREAK AT WORK. IF YOU DECIDE TO DOWNLOAD THIS GAME, YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST BE COMPETITIVE AND BE PREPARED TO FIGHT OTHER PLAYERS TO THE DEATH, EVEN IF THAT’S NOT AT ALL WHAT YOU HAD IN MIND WHEN YOU DOWNLOADED THIS GAME. IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THESE TERMS, YOU SHOULD IMMEDIATELY UNINSTALL.

There ya go.

[BigLordF]

@TGW

@BigLordF

1. The mere fact that monster chests and to some extent titan chests depend a lot on your raid arena show how clueless you are about my reasoning and perhaps even this game.

That’s interesting. I’ve never heard this.

Devs, please confirm?

Or is this yet another “fairly false forum fact”?

That’s advice I received long ago and I merely passed on. So far I have not seen anything to disprove it and I tend to believe it true but I’m open to contrary opinion.

@TGW

@BigLordF

3. The unfairness is multi-fold but to put it simply, I find it unfair that every player so far had to deal with the grind and stress of reaching and maintaining diamond level to benefit from better loot (no matter how fantastic that concept is) and this proposal will allow people to skip most of the grind, create one decent raid team, throw a bunch of flasks, reroll until they get favorable matchups, get to 2551 trophies, uncheck a box and they’re guaranteed diamond level for life.

This is still based on your likely false assumption from your original point, yes? Okay.

This is based on my experience back when I was at Gold arena, and I used to go on a cup run reaching up to 2500 trophies or so, only to drop to 1700 minutes later. Even though I only had 3 maxed 5s and 10 maxed 4s at the time. (keep this in mind)

This is also based on the fact that a given defense will allow trophy losses only up to a given point, where an inactive player will reach a balance and cup losses will be offset by cup gains, and defeats will be disproportionately less than wins. However, the proposal doesn’t relate to this point but a higher one where defeats outweigh the wins and cause stress. So the proposal is disingenuous in itself, despite the good intent.

It’s only fair then to see a loophole that will be abused by people who aren’t stressed but want to maintain a higher level.

@TGW

@BigLordF

4. Trophy level is a significant factor of your alliance score. On top of that many alliances set a minimum level of trophies required for their members. Having an artificially high level of trophies is unfair both to your alliance members who will get tougher war matchups because of it, and also those who can’t join that alliance even though they have a better roster than you and deserve that spot more.

Trophy scores have absolutely nothing to do with alliance war score. So again. You are patently wrong. Next!

Sorry, that was a typo while trying to juggle two concepts. What I meant was that a player with an artificially high number of trophies will take the place of a player who earned those trophies without any gimmicks and has a better roster.

And it will be unfair to alliance members who will “NOT” get tougher matchups due to an inadequate roster for that level of competition despite the high number of trophies, or due to lack of participation from one of their members.

@TGW

@BigLordF

Lastly, please spare me your keyboard justice warrior crusade. If you want to debate what I write, you’re more than welcome. If you have questions, feel free to ask. But don’t make false assumptions to make yourself feel better or smarter.

I’m seeing a lot of false assumptions, for sure.

Ditto.

[TGW]

@BigLordF

That’s advice I received long ago and I merely passed on. So far I have not seen anything to disprove it and I tend to believe it true but I’m open to contrary opinion.

I also “received advice long ago”. Among them being:

• You automatically get the HotM after doing X number of summons
• You have a better chance to get a 5* hero if you wait for the summons screen to scroll through all heroes
• You have an increased chance to get the hero you want if you click on the summon button exactly 2.5 seconds after seeing the hero you want appear
• If you use a mono colored attack team, you are guaranteed to have almost zero tiles of that color
• Rare titans are guaranteed to give the bonus item to at least one person in your alliance
• New players will always get 5* heroes early on, in order to entice them into continuing to spend
• The game automatically gives better summoning odds to F2P players
• The game automatically gives better boards to big spenders
• If you post something negative on the forum, SG will nerf your summoning odds

I could go on…

I have yet to see any evidence that completely disproves the existence of bigfoot, so I can’t rule out the possibility… but lack of evidence against does not carry the same weight as evidence for. Absolutely no where is it stated (in this game, on the forum, on the wikis, or otherwise) that raid tier level has any impact whatsoever on monster or titan chest loot.

@BigLordF

This is based on my experience back when I was at Gold arena, and I used to go on a cup run reaching up to 2500 trophies or so, only to drop to 1700 minutes later. Even though I only had 3 maxed 5s and 10 maxed 4s at the time. (keep this in mind)

This is also based on the fact that a given defense will allow trophy losses only up to a given point, where an inactive player will reach a balance and cup losses will be offset by cup gains, and defeats will be disproportionately less than wins. However, the proposal doesn’t relate to this point but a higher one where defeats outweigh the wins and cause stress. So the proposal is disingenuous in itself, despite the good intent.

It’s only fair then to see a loophole that will be abused by people who aren’t stressed but want to maintain a higher level.

… but you are still assuming that trophy count has any impact on anything other than hero chest loot… which, if someone has completely opted out of raids, they won’t even be filling hero chests in the first place…

And yes, it could be used as a loophole open to abuse if it allowed people to simply opt in and out willy nilly… that is not the proposal. The proposal is to be able to fully opt out, period. Meaning… no hero chests. No raids. No raiding people until you reach a certain level, then opting back out again before they can get you back. Just… not raiding, period.

Perhaps to make it more fair? One who opts out of raids goes all the way back down to 0 trophy count.

Of course then, one could argue, “if they opt back in again later, they’ll be able to easily win a bunch of raids in a row…” Yes, and? The same could be achieved via extreme cup dropping.

@BigLordF

Sorry, that was a typo while trying to juggle two concepts. What I meant was that a player with an artificially high number of trophies will take the place of a player who earned those trophies without any gimmicks and has a better roster.

And it will be unfair to alliance members who will “NOT” get tougher matchups due to an inadequate roster for that level of competition despite the high number of trophies, or due to lack of participation from one of their members.

Is it really a gimmick though, if someone is able to fight themselves up into diamond tier, just so that they’re able to join a “2400 cup minimum” alliance? Any competitive alliance like that is going to keep tabs on their members. I’ve seen many alliances with “minimum cup levels” where many of their members have dropped below the minimum entrance requirements. The onus is on the alliance’s leadership in that case to regulate their own membership ranks.

You’re still operating under the idea that cup level equals player value. I’m sure there are plenty of people out there who might carry 2800 cups, but are actually ■■■■■■ alliance members. Whereas there might be plenty of others who only have 1600 cups, but will try harder than everyone else combined.

That right there… the fact that you and so many others judge players simply by their cup level. That is what is discouraging to so many players. The idea that “if you’re not in diamond tier, you obviously suck.” Therefore… we have to fight tooth and nail to try to get to diamond tier. And if we can’t? Well then we just suck.

It’s hard not to take something like that personally. I mean, I’m relatively thick skinned, but getting knocked down in cups and being judged for having fewer cups still bothers me. It shouldn’t, but it does. And I’ve had several alliance mates and others who feel the same way. Some of them take it harder than others. Majority of them have expressed their desires to just opt out of the whole cup ranking/raiding system altogether, because it’s depressing to them to feel like they’re “not good enough”, and never will be.

So yeah. I guess I’m being a keyboard justice warrior in defense of my friends, because they don’t like conflict. I don’t like it either, but here I am anyway, because one thing I like even less than conflict is seeing people I care about get ■■■■ on by other people, when all they’re asking for is for other people to please stop ■■■■■■■■ on them. They’re not asking for free stuffs. They’re not asking for in-game advantages, or to game the system. They’re just asking to be left alone.

[Oliz]

I still wonder why people raised issue over this simple proposal, a simple check box after clicking the skull head , with opt in to raid arena or out. Case closed.

Anyone who opts out will have only the hero chest becomes grey ( inactive), all other chests monster and Titan remain independently active.

All cup holding may even be reduced to zero, since raid cups and ranking would no longer be relevant to the player who opts out.

Same thing with the raid log in the WT, it should also become grey out after enemies have finished all pending revenge.

The ham and iron production in the watch tower is like farm and mine, there should be no reason why they should not continue.

Such opt out invariably mean a total lost out on the POV points related to raids.

If some players feel stress over a part of the game ( aka PVP), and enjoy playing some other entertaining parts that this beautiful game has to offer , there is absolutely no reason why option to be removed from the part they don’t enjoy should not be included.

The interesting thing about this proposal is. It doesn’t in anyway stop those of us who enjoy and like to continue our participation in raids.

[BigLordF]

But this entire proposal IS about preserving cup level. This is why I take issue with it. If the proposal was that people opting out lose ALL their trophies instead, I would be 100% supportive of it.

But even though there is no benefit to it, according to you and others, the proposal is about preserving trophy levels intact. The mere fact that the OP reluctantly mentions a 150 cup penalty makes that perfectly clear.

Which makes me wonder why is that the case. Are you and others incorrectly claiming that there’s no benefit to trophies when you opt out of raids, or are the proponents disingenuous?

[TGW]

Was his idea, not mine. I’m guessing the -150 cup count was in case he wanted to come back to raids at a later point.

If it were my proposal? I’d propose a full opt-out option that would leave your trophy count as [blank].

I am not aware of any benefit to trophy counts outside of hero chests and alliance judgy-judginess.

You still seem to be sticking with this idea that trophy counts somehow have an impact on monster and titan chests; this is patently false.

[Rigs]

Holy crap

I didnt expect all this

[Rigs]

I’m still confused i guess.

Why can’t they just ignore raids again?

I mean other than pov, nothin else requires you to raid

Cup levels are moreso about activity than anything else, it’s more accurate for activity level than team power or other measurements. That’s why it’s typically used moreso for recruiting than retaining

[TGW]

@Rigs

Holy crap

I didnt expect all this

LOL me neither… the others on my side have chosen to simply ignore the entire thread. But it’s been a while since I had a good debate, so I figure… what the hell, why not?

@Rigs

I’m still confused i guess.

Why can’t they just ignore raids again?

I’ve known a lot of people who play the game who don’t like the fact that raids are even an integral part of it. They don’t want to PvP, they don’t like it when their bases get attacked, they don’t want to do raids at all… I’m just supporting their right to be able to opt out of the whole thing.

I don’t think cup levels have much to do with activity. There are days when I’ll use 6 titan flags, 100+ world energy flags, and 0 raid flags. Just because I don’t feel like playing board roulette against a bunch of higher level teams.