Raid Arena Opt-Out Proposal

This was sent to me by another player not on the forum right now. As a favor, I told them I’d share here for sgg consideration as well as feedback/thoughts from the community.

Empires & Puzzles Raid Arena Opt-Out Proposal

Purpose : For many players of “Empires & Puzzles” the Player versus Player aspect can be less enjoyable and in some more extreme circumstances can cause more severe depression and anxiety for players, who may be struggling to separate the losses in the game from losses in real life. Quitting the game shouldn’t be an option especially for players seeking a respite in Raid Arena but are heavily invested in the game overall. Currently, opt-out or non-participation options are available for Alliance Wars and Raid Tournaments. The Raid Arena is the only Player v Player aspect that cannot be opted out. The purpose of this proposal is to give the player more freedom to opt out of raids without suffering significant, unprovoked losses.

Proposed Rules :
1. The player can opt out of Raid Arena participation for 1 day, 5 days, 10 days, 20 days, or 30 days. Once opted out, the player cannot opt back in until the specified desired time frame has ended.

• Why use set times? Why not choose your own time frame to be opted out?

The War Chest and Raid Tournament rewards have a tendency to be graded higher than the Wanted Mission of the Hero Chest from raids because filling the War treasure chest and competing for rewards in Raid Tournaments are more involved and take more time. For this reason, opting out for Raid Arena needs to be more rigid with a few drawbacks. If you could opt back in at any time when it’s convenient for you, then this could undermine the competitive aspect of the game.

2. If you opt out, you lose your ranking. You are automatically thrown into the bottom pool of “NR” ranked players.

Part of the competitive aspect and player pride aspect in raids is the ranking. In order to prevent a player from misusing this opt-out feature to protect their rank, it is necessary to remove opted out players from being ranked.

3. If you opt-out, you cannot be raided unprovoked (you are automatically removed from the pool of potential raid opponents), but you also cannot offensively raid. This stipulation cannot be reversed until the specified Raid Opt-Out period is over.

The only exception is that you can still be Revenge Raided if opted out, but you can prevent a Revenge Raid while opted out, if you purchase a Raid Shield and keep an active Raid Shield in place while opted out. This allows the Raid Shields to still have a role in the game. The 2600 Raid Shield cap is still in force.

4. If opted out of Raid Arena, you sacrifice time to meet “Defeat Heroes” requirements in Path of Valor that cannot be done by only defeating heroes in the Raid Tournament. You can still fill the Raid Heroes Chest by competing in the Raid Tournament.

Because the Raid Tournament doesn’t allow you to target or skip a desired opponent to raid, and it has more rules (and the same for Wars), it should still be allowed to participate in Raid Tournaments and Wars even if opted out of Raid Arena.

Additional proposal:

1. The player opted out of Raid Arena automatically receives a 150-trophy deduction.

This is kind of up in the air in case the previous proposals don’t seem solid enough to keep a player, who opts out from Raids, from undermining the competitive side of the game. This additional proposal is to make opting out more attractive at a personal level for those players legitimately seeking a break from Raid Arena’s competitive grind. Players seeking to mis-use the opt-out feature would be less likely to do so, if they knew a reasonable loss in cups would drop their ranking when the opt-out period ends.

I’m not really sure I understand this one. If you don’t want to raid, nobody is forcing you. You can opt out already and ignore the raids on your defense. Am I missing something? You can also buy the raid lockout thing too, if you want to protect your trophies for some reason-- though since they have no real value, not sure I’d care about that.

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It’s intended to be a QOL improvement. Some find it stressful to see they were raided by another player. As noted above, in an extreme case, they can see it as an unprovoked attack. This tries to allow said person to enjoy aspects of the game that they like and avoid those they do not.

Personally, this does not impact me. Cups come and go. I can separate that aspect of the game and rl. Heck, I’ve also got no problem rading against another player - it’s a good source of resources.

That said, different players play the game differently. And anxiety affects different people differently as well. This thread proposes an idea to help one that finds the raid arena as a source of stress.

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Guess I’m just too old to let something in a game get to me that way, but to each their own. Thanks for the further explanation

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Whether understood by others, I get it…

it truly is QOL for the more “obsessive” player - I ignored raids until I was ready to participate in this aspect of EnP, not an issue. I’ve seen other players do the same.

I’ve also seen players that rant, storm and get way more upset than they should (imo). I don’t know if they would use the don’t participate “button,” but should be easily implemented and afford an option to those that need it.

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yeah I don’t know… just dont do the raids and ignore the occasional updates.

I would rather SG focus on giving us new stuff than focus on letting us opt out of existing stuff.

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I like this one. If we can opt out for wars, why not for (normal) Raids too? It doesn’t seem that difficult to implement.

And I know when I was a newer player, it used to drive me crazy when someone much stronger would Raid me, and I couldn’t revenge. It took a little bit of time and browsing through the forums and improving my raiding before I got past that. I can imagine players suffering from anxiety could be heavily impacted.

And again, it doesn’t seem like it would take much effort to implement - seems like a quick win.

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Just to emphasize that this is not a new concern from a segment of the player base, I wanted to post this link. While @Xorana1 is not the player that asked me to post this thread, based on her post here, I’m sure she’d agree with the idea.

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@TooOldForThis You forgot a small detail: the prize of the chests are based on your arena … and we all know that to evolve the heroes of 4 and 5 stars you need these items.

The source of stress in that game is not raids attacks, alliance wars or tournaments but the way the board is set up. Devs deny it but there are scripts that control how far each one should go … even if they are dedicated. This is stressful.

You shouldn’t just deny someone else’s legitimate complaint about stress like that. For some people the PvP aspect itself is a real source of stress, entirely independent of any discussion about boards that really belongs elsewhere.

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This is a considerable QoL feature, in some other games…you have option of participating in PvP…you either opt in or just get restricted to other features of the game…

However, I could see many penalties in this proposal already. My only suggestion in the aspect of preventing abuse : once a player has opted out, agreed he can no longer attack other players, but he is not 100% opted out until all the enemies revenges are completed… Agreed also, that once a player has opted out, the player should no longer be ranked and a specified period should elapse before such player can opt back in. Howbeit a player can opt out indefinitely. Losing any specified cup may not be necessary as the player would not be ranked.

This is one of the options, I was asking for in my early days of play, it’s already in the features of some other games as stated.

Thank you @littleKAF for bringing this out for vote, however, for now I enjoy raiding and being raided, but for those who don’t like either, they should have options. I will still vote for this anyway…it’s good to have options.

Perhaps it will help to alleviate pressure from those who don’t enjoy raids, more so due to the pathetic hero chest rewards, Although it will mean choosing between losing high point in POV and using this option!

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Do support this idea. I’m very much same as some others it seems… just not confrontational by nature, never enjoyed concept of PvP, even though in this game it is essentially human vs AI (and cruel RNG lol). It still can feel like losing in a raid (as an attacker or a defender) is something to take personally, to make you think the world is against you or you’re just no good at the game.

(To anyone who just laughs at this, wants to say “man up”, “it’s just a game”, etc, I get it… but just for a moment, consider there are other points of view? And people are different, yeah? What if you had a different upbringing or life experiences, or different chemical balances in your brain, that play a role in how you react in certain circumstances? So please be empathetic. Or if you can’t, don’t contribute negatively to this discussion. :slightly_smiling_face: Ok, well there is always the “if you don’t like it, don’t play” thing, which is reasonable for sure… but what is being discussed is a way for people to remain in the game, with their friends, and not feel stress/dread about one aspect of it.)

I did persist for a while in raiding, stayed in diamond for a few months, then eventually decided it wasn’t worth the stress (and anger, and results of anger) so put up a platinum-level defence, and only raid on odd occasions (and usually against teams that I’ll only lose to if RNG reeeeally has it in for me!) Now, whenever I login, I don’t even paying attention to raid defence results anymore. This I found has really helped. I couldn’t give a flying duck about pure raiding anymore lol. But I can see for others having a simple “opt out” feature would be easier/cleaner.

And relating to Path of Valor

Sadly Path of Valor requires PvP in terms of tournaments and wars. Sure, war you don’t have to try, but you also don’t want to let your alliance down by not participating or just not trying (so it means you care, and so get stressed/angry, even when the alliance is supportive and not overly-competitive). And in tournaments, you need to do reasonably well (or use lots of continues) to get good PoV progress.

Would be nice if Path of Valor catered more for game mode preferences. Don’t like PvP? Okay, you can still complete PoV, but you’ll need to achieve a lot more in the PvE side of the game. Don’t like PvE much? No problem, just achieve a lot more in PvP and PoV will be completed.

I get it, it makes sense for Path of Valor to include all game modes. It is healthier for the game to try to get people participating in all game modes. So I can’t argue against counter-arguments lol. Just saying it would be nicer for a subset of the playerbase if it was like this.

(Unless someone has done the analysis, and can say (with this current PoV structure) if it can be completed without war/tournaments already??)

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But if you don’t want to raid, or participate in raids you won’t be collecting that prize chest anyway, so that doesn’t matter. This is just about letting people opt out of raids, I still personally feel that the game already allows this. However, not for me to say how it impacts others. I wouldn’t vote for this for that reason, but since it really wont’ impact me either way, If others think it’s important, then so be it.

So, your friend wants to opt out of an aspect of the game that is ENTIRELY OPTIONAL?

Why he does not just stop raiding? if he does not care about cups, or does not want to deal with winnin/losing them, he can put an aife by herself in his raid defense team.

one can stop attacking/initiating raids, but one cannot stop from BEING attacked. The proposal also addresses the BEING ATTACKED part, and some people can get highly stressed and anxious from that. And it’s not very easy to avoid that - the Watchtower results pop up, you can’t just choose not to look at it.

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It’s really heart-breaking to see so many people dismissing another person’s concerns with such nonchalance.

So, here is my attempt at rephrasing my understanding of the intention behind the proposal. Note, this is not a complete rephrase of the proposal. Only just enough to help address the above mentioned point:

  1. It’s not that raiding itself is stressful.
  2. It’s not that they find the boards irritating (may be… but NEVER attribute the effect (the stress) to one standalone cause (bad boards/RNG whatever you call it)- that’s NOT thinking critically… if anything, that’s a blunder in your thinking!! … more so especially, when the aggravated are clearly quoting a different source of cause for their stress… which brings me to the 3rd point
  3. It’s the view of “Losses” (Cup losses, tier losses whatever it may be) that’s causing them the stress. You have no idea what’s going on in their life… what worries or stresses they have to handle on a regular basis AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, you have absolutely no idea about their mental state - and no basis, whatsoever to base your judgement regarding the same! If they are saying that viewing those “losses” even in a virtual world is adding to their already existing stress, then who are you and I to argue with it??

An urge to all of those in this thread who are dismissing the concerns stated in the proposal:
May be those cup losses do not affect you. May be you are mentally stronger than most of us here… Seriously… kudos to you on your mental resilience
HOWEVER… that does not give you the right to dismiss another person’s concerns or what he/she might see as potential source of stress.

Depression (or any mental illness, for that matter) is a grave affliction aggravated by the modern world. And you have no idea how a depressed person might feel. (YES - even if you are suffering from depression, that does not mean that you will exactly know how another depressed person feels.) Same goes for anxiety and other such mental illnesses.

I guess what I am trying to say is: If you cannot empathize with another person’s pain, the least you can do is to not put them down by dismissing their source of pain.

I hope that’s a simple enough statement for you to understand.

Cheers!!

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I can certainly relate to the sentiment in the original idea. When I started I could not get the hang of raids and so I just voluntarily opted out and didn’t raid at all. It was annoying to keep seeing all the attacks on me every time I logged on but I personally could just go with it. But others for a variety of reasons do not or cannot. One prominent example as mentioned earlier is @Xorana1 who many times here expressed her anxiety at the whole idea of people attacking each other even in a game setting. I haven’t seen her here in a number of months so she may have stopped playing again, which is unfortunate. Her storytelling was first rate.

There is enough content in the game to satisfy users who do not wish to participate in PvP. I no longer avoid raiding but I don’t see an issue with having an opt-out available. Unfortunately I’ve run out of ideas votes.

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First of all, I also happen to consider myself a friend of the person who initially proposed this (no, it’s not me, and no, I won’t tell you who it is)…

Second, I fully agree with the sentiment behind it. I’m not a huge fan of PvP myself… unless I’m in the mood, and actively sign up for it (i.e. Alliance Wars, raid tournaments)… when I downloaded this game, I wasn’t looking for a “haha git gud nub” experience.

That’s actually how I found my first alliance. I had just downloaded the game a couple days prior, was minding my own business, doing quests, trying to figure out the whole leveling up my base and heroes aspects, etc.; game told me to build a watchtower. I built a watchtower. Next day I log in and: “Your base has been attacked!”

What fresh hell is this nonsense? I’m not here looking for a fight. I just want to kick back and play a game and not be bothered.

But the game tells me “you haz raid flags. You must raid people. Click here on watchtower to get your revenge.” I was probably a level 5 at the time. I look to see who raided me? A freaking level 20-something.

This is ■■■■■■■■, I thought to myself. Tried to figure out how to disable raids. Apparently the simple matter of building a watchtower meant that I was now permanently enrolled into PvP. Not only that, but… in order to progress through the map stages, I had to “attack” poor unwitting players who were oftentimes even lower level than I was.

This is not at all what I signed up for!

Not knowing where else to go to figure out how to disable raids, I went to global chat to vent. “Rawr rawr rawr blah blah blah got attacked by some high level douchebag for no reason!” Global chat told me: them’s the ropes, bruh. That’s just how the game works.

Ended up getting recruited into my first alliance through there, which was not something I was planning on doing, wasn’t looking for a social party, but those guys were like “we’ll teach you, we’ll take care of you.” Initially I only joined because I thought that having an alliance meant that they had my back when some random idiot decided to raid me. As it turns out, that’s not how it works, but… well at least they filled in most of my knowledge gaps regarding the game.

Now here I am, I guess now it’s been what… 21 months later?

Still not a fan of raids, or being raided, or being ranked and judged on how many stupid shiny cups I have. PvP should be optional. Literally everything else in the game is. Monsters and titans don’t attack me when I’m offline. I’m not forced into Alliance Wars or raid tournaments. I don’t have to do any challenge quests if I don’t feel like it. Yet… raids? I log off the game for 10 damn minutes, only to get a notification “blah blah blah has attacked your base!” Yeah? Well tell “blah blah blah” to ■■■■ off and leave me the hell alone, because I’m not in the mood to do raids right now. And stop looting my damn watchtower.

Can I simply just “ignore” it? Sure. But why should I have to? Why shouldn’t we be at least be given the option to opt out if we don’t feel like taking part?

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Well, no you can’t actually stop from being attacked, but you can do a variety of things to DISENCOURAGE people to attack you:

  • Don’t level up your Watchtower, a weaker Watchtower will never be attractive to anyone looking for food/iron in PvP battles.
  • Setup your defense team with one single Aife with lowest troops you have (villagers have 0% boost of everything). You will not be attacked by anyone trying to fill a monster chest, only people lower than you will attack you, draining out your cups… and you’re set, your base will not be attractive to anyone, so you will not be attacked.

If that is the case (I think it’s not, because the OP clearly states that opting out will drop all your cups), there are raid shields that will let you keep your cups for a while.

Man, really, if those players can’t handle stress and/or frustration for whatever reason (I’m not judging anyone here), they need to play a different game. And I’m not being insensitive, but realistic. This game is full of stress and frustration from the word go (summons, boards, Ascension Materials, etc.).

That being said, I think I have a BETTER proposal to help those tormented souls: Deactivate Watchtower: you are not attacked, but you don’t get food and iron either, deactivating Watchtower can also include opting out of war and tournaments, so you are left out of every and all PvP battles.

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