[Play style] No Remorse 4*/ 5* leveling

Subject
[Play style] No Remorse 4*/ 5* Leveling

==Background==
==Background==

==Rainbow teams with farmable ascension items==

Some heroes are good, some suck, but most are okay.

I recommend all players level a rainbow team to 3* 3.50 ( linky, linky ), followed by a rainbow team to 4* 3.60 ( linky, linky ).

This only requires 1*/ 2* ascension items and allows you to create teams with double strong color, no weak color. Even a dead 3* hero of the strong color significantly increases you damage in addition to removing the 4* 3.60 weak color hero.

==4* 3.60 Heroes==

Using only 1*/ 2* ascension items, 4* 3.60 heroes are the most powerful heroes in the game ( see Notes )

Leveling different, but good, 4* 3.60 heroes gives you flexibility for any situation and gives you heroes for use in war and the rumored Class system coming soon.

==4* 4.70 Heroes==

Some heroes are good, some suck, but most are okay.

Once you are happy with your 4* 3.60 rainbow team ( be it your first, second, third, etc. rainbow 4* team ), and have played with them to make sure they work well together and match your play style, level your first 4* 4.70 rainbow team.

Most of the game content can be accomplished with a good rainbow 4* 4.70 team and a Forge level 17.

==5* 2.60 Heroes==

Using only 1*/ 2* ascension items, 5* 2.60 heroes are more powerful than 3* 3.50 heroes ( see Notes ).

Leveling different, but good, 5* 2.60 heroes gives you access to 5* abilities for us in quests, war and the rumored Class system coming soon.

==Keeping 3* 1.1 Heroes==

Keep at least one copy of each good 3* 1.1. If you have them leveled to 3* 3.50 keep that one. 3* 3.50 heroes give you ( to readers: all together now ) flexibility for any situation and gives you heroes for use in war and the rumored Class system coming soon.

==No Remorse==
==No Remorse==

==No Remorse 3* ascension items==

Some heroes are good, some suck, but most are okay.

RNG means you never know what 4* hero you will get tomorrow. “No Remorse 4* leveling” means you only level a 4* 4.70 hero if you need the hero and have twice the 3* ascension items you need.

Example: Before leveling a green hero to 4* 4.70 you would need 8 Sturdy shields. So if spend 4 Sturdy shields on the current hero, and you summon a better green 4* hero tomorrow, you have the Sturdy shields.

==No Remorse 3*/ 4* ascension items==

Some heroes are good, some suck, but most are okay.

RNG means you never know what 5* hero you will get tomorrow. “No Remorse 5* leveling” means you will only level a 5* 2.60 hero if you need the hero and have twice the 3*/ 4* ascension items you need.

Example: Before leveling a green hero to 5* 3.70 you would need 16 Sturdy shields and 12 Mysterious tonics. So if spend 8 Sturdy shield, and 6 Mysterious tonics on the current hero, and you summon a better green 5* hero tomorrow, you will still have the Sturdy shields and Mysterious tonics.

==No Remorse 5* Heroes==

Some heroes are good, some suck, but most are okay.

Only level 5* heroes to 5* 2.60 ( 1*/ 2* ascension items ) until you have a viable, rainbow 5* team of good heroes.

Example:

I have multiple blue training camp, and HotM, 5* Heroes but I have no green 5* Hero and no 5* healers.

I am waiting for 1- 2 good 5* healers and 1- 2 5* Splash damage ( this has served me well for 4* 4.70 team ). If I level a blue 5* hero now, it might not fit with the rainbow 5* team I get later.

==No Remorse Recruits and XP==

The best XP per recruit is Extra low cost training ( RT11 ) it produces x1.8 more XP per recruit than the next closest method. But this is slow. You can speed it up by using multiple training camps. If you use 1 camp for Legendary training ( RT20 ) to produce 4* heroes, and 3 camps for Extra low cost training ( RT11 ), and level a rainbow team ( best way to raise your heroes’ special skill ) you can level 10 rainbow 4* 3.60 teams -OR- 5 rainbow 4* 4.70 teams -OR- 2.4 rainbow 5* 4.80 teams PER YEAR.

RNG means you never know what hero you will get tomorrow. But with above methods you are limited by 3*/ 4* ascension items and slow Extra low cost training.

If not sure about a 4* hero or 5* hero, level it to 4* 3.60 and 5* 2.60. One you level hero A, you only get 10% of the Hero XP back, and none of the ascension items, if you use Hero A to level Hero B.

You can keep finished 1*/ 2*/ 3*/ 4*/ 5* heroes in training camps by not collecting them and replenishing the training with more recruits ( see Notes )

==RNG and 3*/ 4* ascension items==

Another advantage with waiting to level 4*/ 5* Heroes is RNG will mostly level out.

I have 2x- 3x the Trap Tools as any other 3* ascension items, but that is just RNG. The other four 3* ascension items are close in numbers. I just need some good 4*/ 5* purple heroes to use them on.

==No Remorse and Hoarding==

Some heroes are good, some suck, but most are okay.

With “No remorse 4*/ 5* leveling” if you have twice the 3*/ 4* ascension items you need to level a 5* Hero, and you have enough extra 3* ascension items to level a good 4* 4.70 hero, level another good 4* hero.

Example:

If I get 20 sturdy shields ( enough for two 5* green heroes and a 4* green hero ), and I have a good 4* Hero, I will level the good 4* Hero rather than hanging on to extra Sturdy shields for five years.

If you have twice the 3*/ 4* ascension items you need, and you have enough extra 3*/ 4* ascension items to level a good 5* 4.80 hero, level another good 5* hero.

Example:

If I get 24 Sturdy shield and 18 Mysterious tonics ( enough for three 5* green heroes ), and I have a good 5* hero, I will level the good 5* Hero rather than hanging on to extra Sturdy shields and Mysterious tonics for five years.

==5* Heroes are expensive==

Do not level 5* heroes just to level 5* Heroes. Once you have a good rainbow team of 4* 4.70 heroes, and a Level 17 Forge, you can accomplish most of the content in the game. Once you have a second good rainbow 4* 4.70 heroes, especially if you have 2- 3 Healers and 1- 3 special skill control heroes, you should be able to accomplish all the content in the game.

4* 4.70 heroes take 50% of the 3* ascension items and 47% of the XP of a 5* 4.80 hero.
4* 4.70 heroes have better stats than 5* 3.70 heroes.

4* 3.60 heroes take 0% of the 3* ascension items and 24% of the XP of a 5* 4.80 hero.
4* 3.60 heroes are the strongest heroes in the game that use only farmable ascension materials, so you never regret using a 3*/4* ascension item on them.

==No Remorse Extra fast training ( RT19 ) ==

The second best XP per recruit is Extra fast training ( RT19 ) it produces 55.55% the XP per recruit of Extra low cost training and requires rugged clothes plus 660x food per hour of training. It is x1.38 more XP per recruit than the next closest method. But it is very very fast. It is 66.6 times more XP per hour than Extra low cost and 10 times more XP per hour than Common ( RT1 ).

When you are leveling a good rainbow team of 3*/ 4*/ 5* Heroes, occasionally remove the recruits from pending Extra low cost training ( RT11 ) on your last camp, and start 30- 120 Extra fast training ( RT19, requires 30- 120 Rugged clothes ).

Personally I prefer to use 120 Rugged clothes at a time.

The only faster way than Extra fast training ( RT19 ) to level a good rainbow team is duplicate summons from 300x to 1200x gem summons.

MY PERSONAL PLAY STYLE
I developed this play style when using candy ( think ascension items ) and stardust ( think training camps ) in Pokemon GO and other mobile MMOs like Book of Heroes.

Don’t hoard. Don’t be quick to spend. This play style suits me.

==Related Topic==

[Play style] When to level your first rainbow 5* team (linky, linky)

==Notes==

XP per recruit and XP per hour

Leveled heroes per 365 days with extra low cost training

16 Likes

■■■■, you write alot… :wink:

1 Like

My one thought on this is if you hoard materials till you have more then double what you need you will always be weaker then you should be. More so if you do this quite early. That means less titan damage and less chance at more items from loot. You will also likely stay longer at a lower raid class also meaning less items to ascend with later. Finally you will also have a lot less depth for AW then you would if you had raised more heroes.

I agree on not rushing and using mats on mediocre heroes that you will quickly fall out of love with but I raised my first set for 4 stars that I got ready and also raised many of the first 5 stars I had as soon as I got materials and have zero regrets as would have been further back in the game then I am now if I followed the hoard directions. I only have 6 5 stars raised don’t have all the mats for any more yet but can complete most events without items. Christmas did take me a few mana potions. I have also made it to 2nd in raid. With the plan proposed I wouldn’t have been able to do either.

4 Likes

@Gryphonknight does call this “no regrets”. And he’s probably right – following this strategy, you’ll never get into the “I just ascended Quintus and the next day Sartana popped out of TC20!” regret.

As you note, @gibbleguts, there is a different sort of regret that is definitely triggered by this strategy: regret of delay, being underpowered, etc. It’s easier to ignore that, though not always – anyone sitting on an unascended mana control hero right now and facing Mother North is probably regretting their decision not to ascend it.

@Gryphonknight builds in two layers of conservatism:

  1. Take heroes on a test drive at lower levels to make sure they fit with your style and your team;
  2. Delay ascension until you have stockpiles

Honestly, I’m too impatient to do both. I agree with #1 – it doesn’t matter how Anchor rates a hero, I may or may not like using it, or I may not have supporting heroes to make it effective. #2 is too far for me. I do follow a rule of not ascending a 5* at all until I have 5 of the color-matched epic mats (e.g. telescopes) AND the intention of finishing it if nothing better comes along. Natalya sits at 3/70 because first GM, then Zimkitha, came along. But she may get rings yet if Mitsuko doesn’t saunter over to my bench.

6 Likes

I like your thinking when it comes to 5* hero’s, but for f2p or c2p with possibly shallower benches than yours, it might prove valuable to get certain 5*'s to 3/70 for aw, even though they might never max said hero. Especially hero’s which bring some utility to the battlefield. I have a few 5*'s @ 3/70 which have their use, but never will be maxed. I have plenty of materials, but I lack desirable 5* hero’s (I have nothing but common S1 5*'s, and the only missing “want to have” from tc20 is Magni).

1 Like

I never told you this @Gryphonknight but the first time I read your post about hoarding recruits in TC11 it was like start playing again. I felt like a blind man seeing for the first time, like entering to another dimension, like… Like…

Well, thank you.

2 Likes

Is there anywhere I can read about this rumored class system?

First rule of class system is…

Official posts ( you can also search for more posts ):

Continuing the discussion from 1.12.5 Release Notes:

  • 13- and 14-star titans removed for the time being

The feature appears to be close to release and is just undergoing Operating system/ Hardware Beta testing.

Update
2018-Dec-07
4:00P UTC

As I said it is my play style.

==Limited Hero XP==

I only have the Hero XP to ascend 2- 3 rainbow 5* 4.80 teams per year, and any rainbow 5* 4.80 team I ascend takes Hero XP, and 3* ascension items, away from rainbow 4* 4.70 teams.

==Synergistic and Color stacking==

Since I use synergistic 4* 3.60/ 4* 4.70 teams, strong/ neutral color stacking and 1*/ 2* battle items, I often score more points on titans and war than older teammates who ascended some of the training camp 5* heroes to 5* 4.80 and use 4* battle items.

This is probably a design choice since most of my best 4* 3.60 heroes are gems summons from seasonal events, challenge events and Atlantis events ( I desperately want Proteus, which makes the Devs payroll department happy ).

==Depth and Hoards==

By having more 4* 3.60 it gives me versatility on combining special skills that I would not have if all my 5* heroes were leveled ( looking at you Thorne ) and all my original 4* heroes leveled to 4* 4.70.

By having more 4* 3.60 I did not drain my hoards and I was able to use those stockpiles to 24 hour level Hansel to 4* 3.60, plus four other heroes on a rainbow team to 4* 3.60 and another rainbow team half way to 4* 3.60 ( I swapped Hansel for the 4* green I was currently leveling ).

Once I have three more heroes ( I have Jackal - and his orbs - for yellow ) I will level Hansel - I have his shields - to 4* 4.70.

Similar to most Gacha based MMOs, a lot of Empires is getting the paywall locked heroes.

==Limited Time Events==

I missed 2017 Snowman avatar because I did not have a decent rainbow 4* team. I will never get another chance. I spent huge amounts of food leveling my troops, but I just did not have enough Hero XP and 3* ascension items to get a strong rainbow 4* 4.70 team. My forge was also not yet Level 17.

If I had used my shields on Caedmon or Little John last year, I would not have them this year for Hansel since Hansel was not yet released. Same for Gretel/ Orbs and Proteus/ Trap tools ( okay, I have a metric ton of trap tools, but last year I did not and could not now my future trap tool situation ). I doubt Caedmon or Little John would have been as helpful against Mother North as Hansel 4* 3.60.

People who miss Santa’s Challenge due to missing a particular hero can try again next year. But the current business model encourages you to spend as much as you can afford to summon good heroes, and use duplicates to level those heroes, in case the rewards from the 2018 Santa’s Challenge never come back.

Do not hoard

I do not have a good rainbow 5* 2.60 team. But I almost have enough ascension items for 3x rainbow 5* teams. If I get enough ascension items for 3x rainbow 5* teams then I will not hoard.

Instead I will level the following rainbow 5* 4.80 team in one day:

Click for details

Thoth-Amun 5* 2.60, Aegir, Vivica, Kadilen 5* 1.1, Marjana 5* 2.60.

Vivica for healing, Aegir to spread tile damage, Kadilen for special skill defense and fast mana speed attack all enemies, Thoth-Amun for self healing and fast mana speed attack target and nearby, Marjana for fast mana speed sniper.

This one looks scarier so better defense team.

Or

Thoth-Amun 5* 2.60, Aegir, Anzogh, Kadilen, Joon 5* 3.70

Anzogh for healing / protection from blue / attack all enemies, Aegir to spread tile damage, Kadilen for special skill defense and fast mana speed attack all enemies, Thoth-Amun for self healing and fast mana speed attack target and nearby, Joon for fast mana speed sniper and powerful enemy accuracy debuff.

This one more damage so useful for farming.

Kerridoc

Tough call. Kadilen and Thoth are your weak links, although I admit that an emblemed Kadilen did a number on me in a war battle this weekend, and Thoth has delivered from time to time (though best paired with Panther, which isn’t an option for you). Aegir is now a strong contender, Joon and Marjana are solid snipers, and Vivica is a strong healer. I’m not a big fan of healer tanks, so I’d lean towards your second build—though I think the jury is still out on Anzogh. I’ve got a set of rings for someone, but I’m still testing whether that should be Anzogh or Elena.

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