Are we heading to Pay2Win? Plus, other concerns

Say, guys and gals, are you noticing something?
I sure am.

We killed a rare red 12* tiger during the course of this thread. It dropped no rings …at least none were reported … BUT it dropped a lot of 3* ascension materials. Many members of my ally got one.

Today, I had a nature chest.
My last xxx colored chests were crap, crap and crap. Oh, did I mention crap?

Now this one gave me one orb, one sturdy shield, 20 gems, an epic hero token (they do exist! wow!), a flask and a trainer hero. Wow! This was a colored chest like in the good old days!!!

Oh, and a nugget and a bomb attack. nice!

Now, dears, I do not believe in coincidence.
I get crap and nonsense for a long time, I am getting tired of this nonsense, I say so clearly - and … lo and behold … I get decent drops?

And this one week before the event? Where I just might do some pulls, if I am not completely disillusioned and thinking about quitting?

Nope, that is not coincidence. If the drops can be nerfed - and most players agree that they have been - they can be un-nerfed as well.

No idea how long this streak of wealth will last. But I am most certainly enjoying it right now.

Thank you, devs!


No. I’m asking a genuine question. If you’ve paid any attention at all, you’d know how long the questions brought up in this thread have been circulating.

So… Either you’ve not been paying attention, or your comment about this thread only being 3 days old was, at best, completely cynical and absolutely disingenuous.

What broke the trust? I’ve been playing a year and honestly haven’t seen anything that incites the panic that exists on the forums, LOL. I mean anytime they do anything someone pewps on it no matter what.

I am really curious as I do pay into the game (not a lot like some do, though) and honestly haven’t seen anything crazy enough to make me rant or rage quit or anything.



I think you hit the nail on the head, my friend, and summed up quite nicely what I think a lot of people are feeling about the company… distrust and disregard for the players.


Well, thinking about it, I think one of the posters above has put it very nicely. They said: Wars introduce the element of competition.

Thinking further along that line:
wars introduce the element of competition. yes. to every alliance, every player.
They also introduce some pressure. Because your ally mates can see when you fail.
They also require at least 30 leveled up heroes. To reduce the chance of failure, to put it bluntly.
Now, leveling up heroes consumes ascension materials. Period.

Therefore, ascension materials are in high demand - because you have to consume them in order to get a half-way decent score in the wars, instead of failing and letting your alliance down.

And at exactly this time ascension materials drop at a slower rate than previously. And offers appear to purchase those materials.

Hmmm …

I can well understand that this is causing great annoyance.

First the game requires players to max as many heroes as possible. Then the necessary materials drop at a slower rate than previously. And - to add insult to injury - offers appear frequently to purchase these materials for a lot of money. Materials that nobody would need, mind you, if the game did not suddenly require the players to max so many heroes.

Yes, it is quite understandable that people find this annoying. I know I do.


I feel the same over here.

More of what I learned about the game I have also expressed in Just the place for a Snark! I have said it once


You DO know that people have different positions in a company, right?

So it could have been responded to with “we’re looking at that” or “I can’t address that right now but I will ask the appropriate person to address this concern asap”…

Instead we got crickets

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Do you really believe, based on the tone of this forum/thread (hint: it’s currently negative), that people would accept that? I sure don’t.


Then that person shouldn’t have replied at all.

Accountability for a game developer is not part time and it’s not “when we want to be”.

They’re either accountable to their customers or they’re not.

If they had built a reputation of being accountable to their customers, they would not currently be in the predicament they find themselves in.


I’m not defending SG, but I’m amused at the suggestion that there are companies who are wholly accountable to their customers. Yes, in an ideal world they would be, but unfortunately every company is beholden to the bottom line (or investors).

Perhaps because I haven’t “invested” any money into the game I have a different attitude about it. I’d be more than willing to watch stupid ads (If offered as a choice) as a way to help the game and SG, but I’ll never pay actual cash.


lol, are you saying game devs can’t take holidays, can’t take vacations, can’t have time off the game?

The game is free to play. Nobody HAS to spend anything on it. People WANT to spend and people who DON’T want to spend are worried that the game is becoming too much of P2W. I’ve already resigned myself to the fact some of my long-term goals will become really long-term, because I can’t pay more than VIP.

I’m worried about it, I think the devs HAVE to be accountable and I also believe they MUST answer to this thread.

That said, not answering to something is a Constitutional Right in most countries in the world, and answering only when everyone in the team have talked about it is a must for any organized company.


1/ This game has both components of P2W and F2P. In terms of Hero Pulls, it’s essentially some sort of lottery except you don’t know exactly the odds, which I don’t think matters much. I don’t know how much legal that is but I don’t think it matters as much as some people concern. Low chance is low chance, isn’t it? And even if you had known the exact odds, could that have stopped you?

2/ I have spent a crazy amount of money on this game. I’m neither bragging about it nor proud of it. My point is if this game would ever die, that would have more negative effects on P2W players like me than F2P players obviously because of the amount of money spent. So if any self-claimed F2P players wish the game to be dying or make others think that their saying goodbye so important, I couldn’t care less.

3/ If this game has become a real business, SG would have to think of a way to make P2W players keep spending. I’m asking myself: ‘I’ve spent a crazy amount of money, what would make me keep spending as long as I can afford it?’ The answer is very simple: more new heroes, more deals for rare ascension items, and higher tiers of leveling up heroes, buildings, and troops; that’s it right?

4/ For F2P players or those who spent dimes and nickels, what is their value to SG? Likely marketing and PR, which may be deemed a bridge between Empires and Puzzles and potential new ‘clients’. So if they can’t add this kind of value but keep asking for an easier way to achieve heroes and items others have spent actual money for, I’m not sure how seriously I would take their opinions if I were one of the devs, let alone those who have said their sensational goodbyes.

5/ There’s no winning in this game, even top 10 players win and lose on the daily basis and the leader-board changes all the time and I believe that’s the beauty of the game. No matter how strong your teams are or whether you possess Zel Guin GM, you would be beaten. There’s been nobody invincible; even Zero and Jimmy are no exception. In other words, regardless of your team power, you’re always playing in the league that suits you the best, and it seems how active you are also determines how high you can claim to the top.

6/ I’m in an alliance whose members still enjoy the game pretty much despite occasional complaints about loot or how rare legendary heroes are, and interestingly most of them don’t even know such a community forum exists (lol). I mean whenever there are some sort of opinions in this forum, we can’t just jump to conclusion that they speak for the majority of the E&P Community.

P/S: Any player in 7 Days Departed is my idol, and since you are even the founder of the alliance, I thought I’d just be 100% honest. :slight_smile :slight_smile:


I have crazy good hero luck and terrible mats luck… Random is what random does, piss ppl off. Ive spent money but not a ton. I enjoy the ppl I play with and find the game enjoyable.

Regarding Wu I doubt there is anything wrong with him… 2 ppl I know did the due diligence on 100 tiles and he came with a 31-35% miss rate… Which is right in line with his special.


Moderators getting salty now heh

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Agreed. After several guild members finished the seasons 1 campaigns and getting nothing… the rest of us stopped doing it.

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  1. Low is low, sure, but if you know the odds and are “official” you know thats something fair and equal for everyone. As it is, you don’t know if odds are the same for everyone or changing in time, or even appositely different for every account based on an alghorytm to make you spending more. Thats the difference in not knowing how something works. That something could work in many different ways and there’s no way to blame them.

  2. A single goodbye doesn’t count for sure, but throwing money at whatever offer they do push them to do more and more extreme offers, more and more extreme heroes and so on. Because hey, they spend no matter what! And the obvious conclusion of this is breaking a limit and make a mass-escape all at once, as soon as another game take the lead. Soooo, you (and huge whales generally speaking) will be your own gravestone at this pace.

  3. Thats exactly what they are doing, but this don’t prevent them to make even more content or other ways to satisfy a much greater players datase, especially because their business provide them a huge profit. So the word that i think reflect them more then anything i guess is “lazy”.
    Doing only what they value the most and meh on everything else. Just more work.

  4. People much more asking for balancing new and old heroes rather then get them like nothing.
    It’s good and fair that money gives you an advantage, but that advantage can’t and must not last forever no matter what. Thats a poor concept.

  5. Titan and events have winners and lead to juicy items. So while raids are an effimeral glory, this two challenges are not, and worth to compete if you have the skills. But skills are no longer enough for many good players (see loorts or arien) and even compete on a small field like a titan become more and more difficult without the new heroes.

  6. There’s no way to know how the majority of the people think and if this community reflect it. But polls usually take as reference a small sample of population to assume the overall stats. So here i guess we have to do the same and trust the majority of the community as rappresentative of all the players.


Thank you for your reply Elpis,

1/ As I said, I really don’t know how much legal or even ethical it is, those who like to gamble gamble, and if the odds are advertised, I guess that would just be a formality, which is probably useful when you file a lawsuit or rationalize doing so. If hero pull is like a casino, I would say it’s more practical focusing on controlling yourself rather than pointing the finger at it for your bad luck.

2/ E&P’s success has been deemed unique and unprecedented so far, so I don’t think I can make any useful prediction. Maybe one day I’ll regret spending a crazy amount of money on this game but that’s kinda irrelevant. We’re living in capitalism and the law of supply and demand rules to a great extent. If SG fails to comply with it and E&P dies out, then that’s their problem. Resulting emotions of huge whales and the rest are just a by-product, which is kinda the point I’m trying to make here.

3/ Agreed.

4/ I don’t know how much advantage money would give me when I spend on this game. I know what I got from spending gave me joy though and I think most of those who spend agree. When I bought deals that have 4* ascension items, I did it because I needed the items and I can afford them. Frankly no P2W player wouldn’t buy deals because they sympathize those F2P who grind the game 16 hours a day for wanted missions but end up receiving only 2* crap. They wouldn’t buy deals only when they don’t need them or they can’t afford them right? And if you say ‘money can’t buy happiness’, then that’s a way broader issue we have in life.

5/ Agreed.

6/ I think SG got the stats for this. I just find it interesting that most members in my alliance have no idea there’s such a forum or they wouldn’t even bother to check it out. I guess they fall into a different target segment for SG then, but what’s more important is that everyone is still playing and enjoys the game.


The part where you say you dont really care or wouldn’t, as a dev, take ftp players complains seriously, this is when your pool of players drastically goes down. I understand the part where all players should contribute to support the game, some don’t and want to beat it without spending a dime and its ok. The game advertises itself as free. With that state of mind and as the odds and cost spirals out of control, ftp realize its not worth it and this, as a consequence, lowers you ctw as well and loosing microtransaction revenues. Glad your not one of them.

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