The greatest trick the devil ever pulled

[Ultra]

@BigLordF

Second, who makes this rules?

@TGW

To suggest otherwise… reminds me of my younger sister, after I graduated school. She had to wake up and go to school every morning while I slept in. She said “it’s not fair, why do I still have to go to school while you get to stay home?”

Maybe because I started going to school 2 years before you did? Why do you think you should get to automatically graduate 2 years early??? I put in my 13 years of primary school, you think you’re going to get out after only completing 11? I don’t think so.

It’s funny that you say you don’t see the incentive of playing if there’s no chance in hell to compete with the best players. I feel exactly the same way.

As it currently stands, those with the best rosters are those who spent the most. Period.

I definitely agree here. Those with the best rosters are definitely those who spent the most. Money, or time, or both.

I find it funny. The analogy of the younger sister. If the siblings both have the same IQ, then the sister couldn’t academically overtake the older brother. BUT if the sister had an IQ, say 300, she’d intellectually and academically beat the of the older brother.

Same in the game. Players of the same financial cabability only progress at the rate of how much time they spend on the game. One can spend so much time as opening as many chest as he/she can in a day, while the other play less than an hour each day. That active player will progress faster than that player who spent minimal time in the game by reason that he/she hasn’t grinded in the game as much as the other player.

But in truth, not all players are the same. Some are rich and willing to spend. Others, not so. The rich will get things his/her money is able to buy. The poor will rely basically with hard work and luck.

True utopian equality and fairness is just a pipe dream. Maybe some people here need to drink their coffee and smell the roses. Either way, they need to set their feet on the ground and see what reality is.

… or they try understanding communism.

In sum, if a player ain’t happy with the game anymore, best recourse is to quit the game and the forum, right? Really. At least, they minimize the spread of hatred and negativity. That’s the most obvious solution to the woes.

[Chrislilt]

Quit then lol. You Won’t be missed. Why comment on a thread you dislike.

[TGW]

@Cheds

And the same 5 - 10 people just venting about how terrible the game is…

At this point the forum is rapidly becoming a support meeting place for “SGG Anonymous”

I somehow get the feeling that you’re referring to me.

I could also say the same, same 5-10 people defending everything about the game… to the point that the forum is rapidly becoming a support group to defend SGG’s profit margins…

All I am asking for is a better chance to get new heroes without having to rob a bank, you guys act like I am asking for the moon. Geesh.

@Ultra

I find it funny. The analogy of the younger sister. If the siblings both have the same IQ, then the sister couldn’t academically overtake the older brother. BUT if the sister had an IQ, say 300, she’d intellectually and academically beat the of the older brother.

Is that what you think happened in my situation? LOL. No. Here is what happened. I graduated high school after completing all of my coursework over 13 years. My younger sister dropped out of school because she couldn’t be bothered to finish the last 2 years.

“Oh well she must have been really smart, she dropped out and went on to start a company or something!”

No. She just dropped out. That’s it.

@Ultra

But in truth, not all players are the same. Some are rich and willing to spend. Others, not so. The rich will get things his/her money is able to buy. The poor will rely basically with hard work and luck.

True utopian equality and fairness is just a pipe dream. Maybe some people here need to drink their coffee and smell the roses. Either way, they need to set their feet on the ground and see what reality is.

… or they try understanding communism.

Ummm it’s a video game? Success in video games is supposed to be based on a combination of a player’s ability in the game as well as how much time they have spent grinding to earn certain rewards… not how much money they spent to buy themselves a win.

@Ultra

In sum, if a player ain’t happy with the game anymore, best recourse is to quit the game and the forum, right? Really. At least, they minimize the spread of hatred and negativity. That’s the most obvious solution to the woes.

So by coming on here to suggest that the developers be more generous to their players, that is “spreading hatred and negativity”? Wow. Gee. So I guess I’m also spreading hatred and negativity when I call for corporations to give their employees better wages. Or when I call for better regulations on companies that pollute, or financial companies that gouge their customers.

I’m sorry for being so negative all the time. We should just allow the Bernie Madoffs of the world to do their thing without being so negative and judgmental towards them.

[VanCityNative]

When a game is no longer fun to play, P’s you off more often than not. Pretty simple solution, stop playing. Moaning about the direction of the game won’t change anything, especially when the money keeps rolling in.

Flip side, now you know not to invest too much money in a game…I see other games YouTubers are promoting, saying they’re better and improving what’s wrong with this game, maybe today but who’s to say that’ll be the case in a few months or a year. They just getting a jump on others and getting paid

[Cheds]

@Chrislilt

Quit then lol. You Won’t be missed. Why comment on a thread you dislike.

I gather that. It’s hard to be negative and bitter when there’s still some positive light left in the room.

So quitting the forum would be easy but I’ve never been one to let the haters win either.

[Ultra]

@TGW

Is that what you think happened in my situation? LOL. No. Here is what happened. I graduated high school after completing all of my coursework over 13 years. My younger sister dropped out of school because she couldn’t be bothered to finish the last 2 years.

“Oh well she must have been really smart, she dropped out and went on to start a company or something!”

No. She just dropped out. That’s it.

No, what I am referring to is IF your younger sister had an ultragenius level IQ, even if you are 2 years ahead scholastically, she will finish grad school even before you finished secondary school. I see that in real life in my community. And there are even YouTube videos about them, TV series about them, movies about them.

@TGW

Ummm it’s a video game? Success in video games is supposed to be based on a combination of a player’s ability in the game as well as how much time they have spent grinding to earn certain rewards… not how much money they spent to buy themselves a win.

Man, you forgot that video games have evolved leaps and bounds, and has a lot of genres and types. What you are saying might still be true in arcade and some console games, but we have seen a rise of gacha games, right?

@TGW

So by coming on here to suggest that the developers be more generous to their players, that is “spreading hatred and negativity”? Wow. Gee. So I guess I’m also spreading hatred and negativity when I call for corporations to give their employees better wages. Or when I call for better regulations on companies that pollute, or financial companies that gouge their customers.

Try alienating yourself. Read your several posts above and consider yourself as a different forum user and you will reach a conclusion that what you have posted is not constructive criticism, you know, the one that tends to positively build goodness. There are better ways and means to achieve a goal. Doing so makes you a better person.

I did try that negative approach. That was way back then. It resulted to further negativity instead. There are better ways to go to negotiations without all those toxicity. Let us just try building positives and hope for the best. Not the other way around where the only scenario is a lose-lose one.

[Ian487]

It’s not about hate here… sorry if that’s all you got after browsing through this tread. In fact, I think most of those you acuse of hatred and whining love this game and are sad to see a good thing getting trashed by it’s own creators… days ago I watched yet another multi - thousand dollars roster fed to Aife in a desperate attempt by the owner to escape the addiction. Made me reflect for a while on how lucky I am for being a free player… there’s no end to this bottomless money pit but quitting the game. And you can’t even cut your losses by selling your hard payed for account, because that would be bad for bussines, wouldn’t it?

[Chrislilt]

Ahhh your one of those here for the comments lol.

[nevarmaor]

From my perspective the game has always been this way. There is no “endgame”, the goal is always just over the horizon. Spend, spend, spend! The grass is greener!

That is why I refuse to spend to chase that horizon, and am quite content to sit in my little low-mid diamond niche that I have built for myself. Now, if that niche starts slipping back down again (looking at you limit breakers!) … I will probably reach my own personal endgame. But that’s fine. I have already been playing far longer than I expected to when I started.

Gacha? Much like gambling it never really appealed to me.

[TGW]

@Ultra

Man, you forgot that video games have evolved leaps and bounds, and has a lot of genres and types. What you are saying might still be true in arcade and some console games, but we have seen a rise of gacha games, right?

I don’t see gacha games as an evolution. I see them as very much the opposite.

@Ultra

Try alienating yourself. Read your several posts above and consider yourself as a different forum user and you will reach a conclusion that what you have posted is not constructive criticism, you know, the one that tends to positively build goodness. There are better ways and means to achieve a goal. Doing so makes you a better person.

I did try that negative approach. That was way back then. It resulted to further negativity instead. There are better ways to go to negotiations without all those toxicity. Let us just try building positives and hope for the best. Not the other way around where the only scenario is a lose-lose one.

So then how do I constructively say that I dislike the gacha model, that I think it preys on people’s gambling impulses, that it’s way too expensive and pay to win, and that I’d prefer it if this game used a different model for acquiring heroes?

Is there a way to even say that without you guys just assuming that I’m being negative?

I’m not here to crap all over your parade. I’m here because I like the basic design of the game, but I dislike the cost structure - specifically the fact that the heroes themselves are insanely expensive and nearly impossible to acquire without spending insane amounts of money, and the fact that those who do spend insane amounts of money to get them have very obvious advantages in the game over those who don’t.

What you and others call a “feature”, I call a major flaw.

[Cheds]

@Chrislilt

Ahhh your one of those here for the comments lol.

I thought being here for the comments was the entire point of a forum?

[Ultra]

@TGW

I don’t see gacha games as an evolution. I see them as very much the opposite.

Evolution is basically a change. It doesn’t mean that they are changes for the better. Even if you consider gacha games as a devolution, it still is a separate change or branch in the video game history.

@TGW

So then how do I constructively say that I dislike the gacha model, that I think it preys on people’s gambling impulses, that it’s way too expensive and pay to win, and that I’d prefer it if this game used a different model for acquiring heroes?

That boat has long sailed. At the onset, this game was designed as such.

@TGW

but I dislike the cost structure - specifically the fact that the heroes themselves are insanely expensive and nearly impossible to acquire without spending insane amounts of money, and the fact that those who do spend insane amounts of money to get them have very obvious advantages in the game over those who don’t.

I have been subtly campaigning this on several of my posts in the forum: play using your brains, not your wallet. In short, don’t spend money just to enjoy the game. It’s more fun defeating those prized defensive juggernauts you see on the leaderboards such as Cobalt, Garnet, Onyx, costumed Kadilen, Black Knight, Finley, Jabberwock, Odin, Frigg, Bera, Freya, Vanda, Krampus, Francine, and some of the S4 and Underwild legendaries, even if you don’t have any of them (really, I have none of those aforementioned heroes) using only the heroes you have. If you lose, let that pose as a challenge to yourself on how to defeat those prized heroes with what less-prized heroes you have. All my mono attacks still use some 4* heroes. I may not win all the time, but I win most of the time. And even if I lose, I usually chalk my defeat due to bad boards, unlucky cascades, fat fingers, or wrong hero used.

As some Christians say, envy is one of the seven deadly sins. Don’t get envious of some players getting those prized heroes. They are either lucky getting them, or paid a handsome sum of money just to get them (some may have incurred debts or sacrificed food or clothing just for them to chase heroes).

Let the whales be the whales. We should thank them for bringing money to SG for them to maintain the game and promote more content. A stale game is one which has no money coming in. They don’t last too long and will soon be buried and forgotten. But soon, moneyed players will realize the folly and may stop or curb spending.

TBH, I am from a third world country and players like me should be the one making this ruckus. Yet I don’t. Maybe I have a different perspective because of the inherent depravity of financial capabilities. And maybe because if us poor players don’t find enjoyment in the game anymore as it used to be, we just leave the game entirely. I know I did: Clash of Clans, Pokémon Go, and some older mobile games.

[TGW]

@Ultra

I have been subtly campaigning this on several of my posts in the forum: play using your brains, not your wallet. In short, don’t spend money just to enjoy the game. It’s more fun defeating those prized defensive juggernauts you see on the leaderboards such as Cobalt, Garnet, Onyx, costumed Kadilen, Black Knight, Finley, Jabberwock, Odin, Frigg, Bera, Freya, Vanda, Krampus, Francine, and some of the S4 and Underwild legendaries, even if you don’t have any of them (really, I have none of those aforementioned heroes) using only the heroes you have. If you lose, let that pose as a challenge to yourself on how to defeat those prized heroes with what less-prized heroes you have. All my mono attacks still use some 4* heroes. I may not win all the time, but I win most of the time. And even if I lose, I usually chalk my defeat due to bad boards, unlucky cascades, fat fingers, or wrong hero used.

This is exactly how I have been playing the game so far. And it is very satisfying to win a battle that I should not have been able to win. But it’s also extremely annoying to see new heroes being released all the time, heroes that I would like to be able to use, but knowing that I will never have them.

I’ve been playing video games for nearly four decades now, and one of the joys for me at least of playing through a game, is being able to unlock and earn new rewards as I go. Knowing that once I reach level 21, I will unlock a new skill. Or once I complete this dungeon, I’ll get a new set of armor. Etc.

This game does not have that. It appears to have that, they show off shiny rewards that you might get, but the odds of getting them are abysmally low if you’re not spending for them. The 1 or 2 free summons you get each month by grinding in each season or quest line is not nearly enough to guarantee you anything more than a vanilla 3* hero. And that is just depressing. To spend all of that time grinding, only to find out that your rewards are all determined by RNG? Maybe you will get lucky? But with odds like that, probably not…

@Ultra

Let the whales be the whales. We should thank them for bringing money to SG for them to maintain the game and promote more content. A stale game is one which has no money coming in. They don’t last too long and will soon be buried and forgotten. But soon, moneyed players will realize the folly and may stop or curb spending.

This is also another point of disagreement I have. The idea that the game needs whales to survive. There are many hundreds of other games out there that are able to provide regular quality content without raking in hundreds or thousands of dollars from their top customers. A game like this does not cost that much to develop and maintain. Nothing even close to the costs to develop and maintain a AAA console title or PC MMORPG or first person shooter. It would not kill SG financially if they were to increase the summoning odds or loot distribution. In fact, doing so might actually help save them in the long run.

@Ultra

TBH, I am from a third world country and players like me should be the one making this ruckus. Yet I don’t. Maybe I have a different perspective because of the inherent depravity of financial capabilities. And maybe because if us poor players don’t find enjoyment in the game anymore as it used to be, we just leave the game entirely. I know I did: Clash of Clans, Pokémon Go, and some older mobile games.

I think that is really what it comes down to in the end… mobile games. I didn’t realize this was how they operated. I thought they made most of their revenue from in-game advertising and small dollar transactions. I never realized it was a multi-billion dollar industry that players were dropping huge amounts of money on every month. Seems way overpriced to me for what we get in return, at least compared to the games I’m used to playing, but I guess that’s just it - the mobile gaming community is willing to spend a lot of money with really low expectations in return.

I don’t know why this fact surprises me; after all, I know people who spend $1000 for a new phone, only to replace it for a slightly better model 6 months later. I always thought those people were nuts. Still do. But I can’t change their minds, nor can they change mine.

[Pompitous]

@Ian487

Only nobody cared to tell us

I tried!
Repeatedly…

When I started running headlong into YouTubers that defend power creeps or deny their existence… then… I gave up.

@Mr.Spock was correct. They have to generate a reason for portals to suck bank accounts dry. For them that have 80+ max’d 5* heroes: why would they spend any money at all for a bland 5* snoozer?
Where he, and SG, are off…
is that unique skills get chased equally if not more… without the endgame of nerfing entire rosters…

So it becomes a tight rope, of maintaining lucrative portals with game balance.
I think the end of the 5* road is nigh,
Stronger, faster, more powerful portals have been the trend for too long!
So why throw money at a portal?
When your done…
And the new heroes aren’t any better than the 80+ you already have?

They can’t inflate stats anymore
So… make an extra passive skill…
ahhaha… what’s next…
What’s left…

Costumes!
6*?

[DoctorStrange]

I agree with you whole heartedly on how the pace of the game changed. Everything is almost overlapping and for all the content the amount of items has not increased at all. If you don’t spend to get ascension matts then u most likely won’t be able to max out your lucky 5 star draw before it is obsolete. That was not the case when this game started.

People don’t look at the fact the 2 and 3 years players still don’t don’t 1 +30 troop. That alone is just insane. The fun left a long time ago and even the people I know don’t make it worth coming back regularly other than to say what’s up. It’s cool seeing the updated artwork of the heroes and to see some familiar names in the forums but those names are really really limited at this point.

Games were invented to give people a chance to compete uses their minds with a level playing field. Other games are now making it to where people can play within their spending range and still achieve greatness, top scores, but most Importantly get heroes to use and actually have a chance to level them up.

[Yhc]

@TGW

So then… I guess that’s it, then. SG world is a world where people give money every month, like a tithe, to the church of SG, and pray to RNGesus to bless them in return.

We call it SGientology, and it’s all about personnel improvement (roster).

@TGW

Those who don’t giveth every month shall be considered filthy blasphemers, and completely disregarded as such. For they hath forsaken thy lord Zynga and are therefore unworthy of mercy or consideration.

Don’t be delusional!
Nobody gets consideration, non-payers are our top priority in that regard!

@TGW

Is that it, then? Officially? Is that where the devs, the mods, and the forum regulars officially stand? That everything here is just hunky dory and that nothing needs to change? And that any opinions to the contrary are no longer welcome (or never were welcome to begin with)?

Again, don’t be delusional.
Of course all opinions are welcome, we just have large exit doors for some.

@TGW

That all of our complaints are just “me” problems and if we don’t like it, we should just officially shut up for once and for all, because it’s never going to change anyway?

All problems are “me” problem, Train
But rest assured: things can change, they certainly have for a bunch of people in Finland!

@TGW

So people like me are just wasting our time and our words and annoying the rest of you, our presence in the game and on the forum is not only unappreciated but also entirely unwanted?

Your presence is appreciated.
Just not by everyone.
You are like a real life Dawa, you bring a message of modesty and holiness and have situational utility (so, better than Dawa, actually).
But to many you are still just annoying when you show up and would willing feed you to Mok-Arrs.
What are you doing wrong?
Unlike Dawa, you are showing up for free

[Out of what I think is an obviously facetious post, I would like to state my gratitude for being a part of this community who vouches for certain values in games - that can’t be found on Yahoo Finance - and this game in particular.
But I can’t help but wonder if people willing to open their wallets for Dawas wouldn’t pay you to stay away from the forum
Sounds like a [retirement] plan. Pun intended ]

[Igmuhota]

@TGW

The idea that the game needs whales to survive. There are many hundreds of other games out there that are able to provide regular quality content without raking in hundreds or thousands of dollars from their top customers. A game like this does not cost that much to develop and maintain. Nothing even close to the costs to develop and maintain a AAA console title or PC MMORPG or first person shooter.

Just finished GOW, now playing Days Gone. Taking a break from Apex Legends. Probably for at least a season (bought the very reasonable $10 season passes up to this point, BTW). God, now that I think about it, I hope those developers haven’t starved to death…

And we’re supposed to believe a mobile match 3 game is what, somehow comparable? It simply doesn’t matter how ridiculous those same old “arguments” are… they persist. I mean, I specialize in maladaptive thought processes, but dear lord. What do you even say?

Again, I applaud your efforts.

[Yhc]

@TGW

Well, I did catch up to them. At least to where they were at when I first started. But now the bar has been set even higher, and it costs money to reach it.

Fun fact, a couple of weeks ago I had breaking news for my alliance:
“Guys… I have now achieved Zero’s level.
Last update 1-1-2018”

(Something like that)

[HELLFIRE]

You are correct.
Any one new to the game in order to be competitive had to spend a lot of money. Makes me laugh when SG go on about balance and fairness when they game is designed to give advantage to anyone who spends more money.

I agree with most of what is being said on here, and the only way to stop SG is for people to stop funding their behavior.

They nerfed and then brought out new even stronger heroes.!!. Why trust these people on anything?
Imagine you buy a TV and they deliberately degrade the software just to try sell you a newer version. Immoral would be putting it too lightly.

I enjoy the game, but until people stop spending SG will not change their ways.
I mean why not balance S1 heroes for free, why we have to buy costumes?? They want to balance? Lol… Balanced in favor of those who spend more!!

[Mr.Spock]

@Pompitous

@Mr.Spock was correct. They have to generate a reason for portals to suck bank accounts dry.

Oh, are we doing a straw man bit? Cute.

@Pompitous

Where he, and SG, are off…

@Pompitous

unique skills get chased equally if not more

You’ll never have any data to substantiate this claim. So, feeling strongly about something does not equal being empirically correct.

My argument was never in favor of runaway power creep. My argument was against nerfing heroes. You seem very concerned with the direction of the game, so you must understand the harm that near-routine nerfing has on player retention.

A matter of fact that you mistook as my personal opinion is that heroes have to continue being more desirable to maintain growth and spending in the game. You seem to think the obvious answer is to create unique specials, as if that doesn’t come with the added expense of considerable difficultly in maintaining balance.

Elizabeth is a prime example of a clever new mechanic. But, what’s the response to her largely been? “She’s way too OP!” So, every time you deliver a new mechanic you run the risk of people just screaming it’s too hard without instead learning how to beat it. The same thing happened with Frigg and the same thing happened with formations.

You overestimate the agility of the player base if you think they’re always wanting to learn how to deal with new unique special skills/mechanics.

It’s clear you feel strongly about your perspective, but you’ve got a ton of blind spots. Take a break from the soap box and go back to the drawing board.