TC 20 not delivering - MASTER TC20 Vent Thread

I’ve done quite a few 10 and 10+ pulls from a singular camp, and it is quite depressing when no 5*s pop. I have been doing smaller number pulls to minimize this.

Still missing four of the 5*s (Magni, Thorne, Kad, Leo)

In my 8th pull from TC 20 i pulled my first TC 20 5*.

I have already Joon as my yellow 5* priority . However i like Justice and It could be serviciable

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Justice can be a helluva difficult tank to crack especially when the board starts off depleted of Dark tiles in a stack against Justice. And if Justice launches her special, your offense is pretty much screwed unless you have someone, who can readily dispel status ailments because her Blind is one of the most accurate of all Holy Heroes in the game. I quite literally lost a raid earlier today because I kept missing over 90% of my attacks all because of Justice. Also, Justice and her allies still gain mana from troop hits that register a miss.

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Off topic: I know you have a butterfly avatar but depends on the angle i see it, it looks like a cat face.

on topic:

If i hadnt joon id surely max justice. But with joon being one of my future 5* its difficult to consider justice.
Although i like justice a lot but i think that joon is over her.
At least by this time. I hope i will be able to gather a bunch of maxed 5* two or three per color

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The avatar is a Fan Art (not mine) depiction of a later version of Mothra from Godzilla. Mothra is technically a female monster and is supposedly the “wife” of Godzilla…however that works and is summoned by song from two miniature, twin, Asian women.

I like moths, and I’ve been a bit of a Mothra fan even though I’m a guy. Besides, I wanted to be the best Mothra in Empires & Puzzles.

But yes, from a distance, the avatar looks like a tawny cat face.

The reason why I find Justice so useful is that her attacks and status ailments are All-Enemy inflicted. Joon is a sniper and can blind a single target, if he is unsuccessful in one-shotting them, but Justice can blind the entire team with comparable to better accuracy than Joon.
Another thing to consider is that Joon is a Monk, and Justice is a Paladin.

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Let’s have a little fun here for a minute.

Now forgetting what heroes this was written for and just concentrating on the percentages of said hero star and the number of pulls.

Wouldn’t this type of displayed format indicate that the more pulls you do the better your chances are at getting a (let’s say 5* ) as is does show that a 10 pull has a 9 times (there abouts) better percentage chance than a Single pull for a 5* hero and over 20 times better in a 30x than a single pull and the list goes on.
So based on this below for example, if one was to do 1500 pulls

And didn’t get a 5* hero they then complain to SG saying hey but it is stated here that if I did 1500 pulls I had a 100% chance of getting at least one.

Wouldn’t this type of format also encourage spenders to do 10x, 30x summons over a single pull even though as we have stated below

And both agreed on thus that same comment also works for 1500 pulls thus having said that let’s presume one was to do 1500 pulls and then come to this forum extremely angry, upset and disappointed that they didn’t get a single 5* hero threatening to leave etc etc.
What do you think the forums response to that will be?

  1. That was unlucky
  2. That’s how the RNG operates as it is only a chance
  3. Why did you spend so much money on something that has no guarantee
  4. More money than sense
    And the list goes on and on, but then he would come back saying something like but hey wait a minute this post that if I did 1500 pulls that I had a 100% chance at a 5* hero.

When in fact based on our above comment his real percentage chances where no different to that of only doing a single pull per each 30x or 10x pull he actually did OTHER THAN he was giving himself more CHANCES (1500 in this senario) at getting a 5* at the said 1.3% summons odds per pull thus then not guaranteing a 5*.

Now as for this posts suggestion

Unfortunately, I think it would suggest that this format does show exactly that.

Might have some merit then based on the odds provided above thus being about 10 times better than a single pull every 2 days.

Now please note I did state that I was just making this point for fun and it doesn’t change my views within past posts on here as technically as we know it each pull within a 10x and 30x summons is only 10 or 30 single pulls within each package thus no better percentage odds per pull than the said 1.3% for a 5* per single pull.

Also this is NOT a punt at @zephyr1 at all as his work and dedication is greatly needed and appreciated, but instead an example of what could be mistaken as misleading based on @Brobb comment that no one has suggested the odds where better from a multiple pull over a single one.

It’s a joke. All I get are 3*

The formatting you’ve copied across is a bit of a disaster. I have coped by following the link to the original post, but it has been tiresome. If you could tidy it up that would be really helpful. Maybe it’s not possible?

Yes. The more times you summon, the better your chances of pulling any particular hero, just as the more times you toss a coin (or the more coins you toss) the better your chances are of getting heads at least once. (One toss: 50%; two tosses: 75%; three tosses: 87.5%; four tosses: 93.75%.)

At the same time, of course, your chance of pulling that hero does not change from one summons to the next, just as your chances of tossing heads are 50% for every toss (or coin). This often seems to confuse people. I don’t know why.

The actual chance is not quite 100%, but it so close as not to matter. (Spoiler: I’ll tell you what it is later.)

If players want to increase their chances of pulling a hero they want, then yes, they should summon more heroes. But whether they summon them one by one or in groups will not affect their chances (nor does the summary data suggest that it would).

If someone did 1500 pulls and didn’t get a single legendary hero then my response would be as follows:

If you are telling the truth and you can prove it, then get yourself a lawyer and sue because you have compelling evidence that the odds are not as stated. It is IMPOSSIBLE, in any practical sense of the word, to summon 1500 times and receive no 5 heroes.

(I just tried to calculate the odds and gave up halfway. I’ll finish, for the sake of it:

The probability of getting only HOTM as your 5* heroes from 1500 summons is 0.975^1500 = 0.000000000000000003 (to 1 s.f.)

And the probability of getting no HOTM from your 1500 summons is 0.987^1500 = 0.00000003 (to 1 s.f.)

So the probability of you getting no legendary heroes at all from your 1500 summons is:

0.000000000000000003 x 0.000000003

= 0.00000000000000000000000001 (to 1 s.f.)

If I have my large numbers correct, that means the chances are 10 septillion to one against this ever happening.

For reference, 10 septillion is about one million times the number of grains of sand on earth.

I’m very happy to call that impossible.)

I think you might be getting yourself a little bit mixed up.

Okay, but based on your earlier comments I’m now concerned that you might not actually understand this. Yes, the odds for each individual pull with a 10x summons package are the same as the odds for a single pull. But the cumulative probability of you pulling a 5* hero is much higher if you summon 10 times (whether one by one or all at once - it doesn’t matter) than if you summon once.

Of cause I understand stand, as I stated it was just for fun based on a player misinterpretation of the odds suggested in that format.

Lol, that’s a big number considering there are only 60 or so items in Each summons portal, lol and each pulls % never chances thus

Still not totally impossible as the chance not to is always going to be there thus making the 100% figure as there is no guarantees in probabilities.

IMPOSSIBLE is a pretty big word considering the probability of it happening is still there, lol and thus not totally impossible.

Exactly my point thus why I think placing a 100% figure leaves no room for error thus opening the door for that same 10 septillion not providing a 5* thus then your big number would become 100 septillion to make it sound even bigger but the bottom line is as long as there is a percentage figure involved then there will ALWAYS be that 0.1% chance it can happen and thus again making that 100% figure an INCORRECT assumption.

Anyway I was just having a bit of fun with ya, lol, nothing personal or out of line intended.

Math and the legal lodgic of the law never have mixed well together which was my basis in bring this up should à player do 1500 pulls, lol. Good Luck guys.

When Percentages are used in any calculation by any mathematical analysis to provide a right is ALWAYS WITHOUT FAIL going to have that small percentage for it to go wrong which in turn RESULTS to NOTHING ever being 100% when dealing in %'s no matter who the mathamatition is.

I say this with no malice: you are now demonstrating that you do not understand probability. A 0.1% chance that something occurs means it is very likely to happen given a decent sort of sample size - a virtual certainty to happen given E&P’s player base.

A one in ten septillion chance:

  • Means that if every grain on sand on earth summoned 1500 times then the chances of any of those grains not pulling a 5* hero would be a million to one against.

  • Is the same as the chance of a person being struck by lightning 5 quintillion times in one year. (The chance of being struck by lightning in any year is about 1 in 700,000.)

  • Is like first picking one star out of the 200,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars that scientists now believe exist (not the stars in the sky, or in our galaxy - the stars that we believe exist in the universe) and if (and only if) the right star is correctly picked, then picking up a coin and tossing ten heads in a row.

You can’t talk about these events as genuinely possible if you’re being serious.

(Observant readers will note that at some point I gave up focusing on s.f. and started spending my effort on orders of magnitude instead. I’m comfortable with that.)

And only by talking about such outrageous figures can you make it sound right and no other reason, lol, I mean this with no malice of cause.

We could go on forever where you could just simply keep adding 0’s to make math sound right.

Lol, exactly my point, typical scientist come up with outrageous theories that can’t be proven other than actually going there.
There are quadrillions, lol, of these types of examples in life. Do I and trillions others believe them just because they are scientist and they say so, NOT so much.

Cruch any number out you want it will change that when working with percentages to prove a point there will Always be that slim percentage chance of the exact opposite happening and that my friend is an absolute given fact.

If you think my calculations are wrong then please explain how. Where there has been any ambiguity I have tried to be quite conservative, so when you talk about “outrageous figures” it makes me wonder again if you understand probability. I’m starting to think you don’t appreciate the implications of the summoning odds.

I certainly could, but I don’t have to. If you think any “0” I have quoted is wrong, please explain why.

You certainly ought to. If your policy is not to believe what scientists say, “just because they are scientists and they say so”, then you are choosing to live in a world of ignorance. That’s your prerogative, of course, but it’s a silly, Luddite thing to do.

An understanding of probability allows us to assess the likelihood of events. If we don’t understand probability then we might sometimes kid ourselves that events are likely when they really aren’t, or that they are possible when they’re genuinely not.

With the greatest respect, you have comprehensively demonstrated that you do not understand probability. You seem to be a good and likeable person and I hope you stay around, but for now it’s clear that at some point in your education you lost track of what was being taught.

My drought finally broke after months of waiting… Lianna my first five star, next one was Dawa :flushed:

Make sure to padlock that Lianna! Just ask @JonahTheBard, if you want a reason why.

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Thus not a 100% certainty

So the fact that over time so many scientists have been proven wrong or that scientists will even prove each other wrong mean that I must be delusional for not believing in everything they are saying. Hmmmmm

I never said or suggested your calculations where wrong just that they where outrageous examples given the said results over 1500 pulls as 1/1500 times doesn’t result in a 100% absolute certainty as the correct result is


For 1 to 1500 odds

Probability of:
Winning (getting a 5*) = (0.9993) or 99.9334%
Losing (not getting a 5*)= (0.0007) or 0.0666%


Thus there is and always will be as I stated earlier that 0.1% chance you will not get a 5* thus the 100% is incorrect and as you said you could sue them BUT if it was stated 99.9% then that very very slim 0.1% chance that you don’t get a 5* after doing 1500 pulls is still there thus you can’t sue and that is a 100% certainty.

It seems to be your most common saying that others just don’t understand anything and that your results should be the last word which only leads me to honestly believe that you are the one not understanding because you are stuck in the belief that probability and certainty are one of the same thing and produce the same outcome.

Lol, oh I am believe me there is no doubt and that is a certainty.

Why should I not stay around, you think you scare or bother me, or maybe you believe that your far more educated than I am, lol, you amuse if anything, lol, thus why as I stated in the beginning that I was doing this

for the fun of it. But you most certainly DON’T scare or worry me, lol.

HMMMMM. Oh I doubt that very much, lol, nice try though, as in the eyes of the law what I am telling you IS a 100% CERTAINTY that the 0.1% chance not to get is actually there thus over riding any probability, lol.

Having fun yet, lol.

Are these calculations for TC20?

First thing I did, I read about what Jonah did on here and giggled, poor man, no one forgets it. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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No these are just calculations over 1500 pulls.

Yeah, but based on what probability? TC20 or summon portals?

Summons but that’s not say that the TC20 sommons portal is any different.

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