@zephyr1 @Rook @Garanwyn there seems to me to be posts in this thread that has been flagged for no reason other than disagreement… Why are these being allowed??
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I addressed that here:
As discussing or debating moderation decisions is prohibited by Forum Rules, I won’t go into further details beyond that post. Thanks for understanding. 
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I did NOT see it was addressed by a mod
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Absolutely I’d say most of us in here are lacking mats to ascend some of our favorite heroes. My point is to not consider some extremely valid points or concerns from non beta members in this forum and brush them off entirely defeats the whole purpose of having a forum for discussion. When you look at the stats numbers don’t lie. I’m not at all saying Neith is going to be garbage, but she’s a lot less desirable if say a player has a couple Drake Fongs. Some beta testers might be in that position bc they’ve been playing for a long time, and need the mats to ascend a second or third Drake. I think what some of us are asking is to just consider the comps is all. If Zeline was a holy hero who gets the mats between her and Neith? I’d go with Zeline bc they basically have the same stats except Zeline is fast mana.
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If people can’t handle long posts without leveling scorn, they shouldn’t read long posts (and they should see a therapist for oddly specific anger management issues relating to literacy/attention issues)
If people can’t handle a strong, unwaivering point of view while themselves holding strong, unwaivering points of view, they’ve no business engaging in public discourse because they are, obviously, hypocritical.
If people can’t handle someone continuing to disagree with them even after they express their feelings, they should probably enroll in university post 2005 or so.
Seriously - not one of those reasons listed excuses scorn. It’s justification for unfair treatment.
Even that post “just let it go” can be seen as trying to take away anothers’ right To express themselves, and is borderline bullying when it comes from a pile-on of a few posters targeting the same individual simply because they don’t like his analysis of a hero card.
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Maybe my personal preference, but I’d choose Neith over Zeline in that scenario. I haven’t had first hand experience for either, but my gut instinct says Neiths special is intimidating like Guins, Hels, BKs. Attack down can be easily overwritten/cleansed if you have BT/Kiril/Rigard ready to go off. Neith on other hand forces you to lose a round.
Most of the folks have been using 3-2, 4-1, or mono stacking for raids. It’s a high risk, high rewards strategy. In the that meta value of a defense hero for me is how much they can punish opposing teams
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Can you link to your statistics analysis? I missed it coming in a bit late.
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This entire thread is the result of moderator intervention.
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I’m sorry but sometimes it’s mentally draining to argue at such length. Why is it unfair to say I don’t want to argue?
And after all those posts, I’m yet to see one beta tester/dev say ‘Hmmm…good point. I hadn’t considered that’. Not all beta testers can be ignoring valid viewpoints right?
EDIT: I’m not sure which part of my original post was not according to conduct. I apologise if I offended someone and did my best to edit it to be non offensive. If I still missed the reason, please let me know what I did wrong so I can avoid it next time.
I don’t know.
Zeline- fast mana
Neith- average mana
Att- Zeline- 764 Neith - 735
Def- Zeline- 688 Neith- 737
HP- Zeline- 1308 Neith- 1299
They both hit like a wet noodle 
Zeline- 143 all Neith- 150 all (basically the same with attack stat)
Zeline- all enemies- -34% attack
Neith- all enemies blind -35% chance to miss
That’s a wash
Zeline- removes all enemy buffs
Neith- 10% mana cut
Now depending on the circumstances some may argue removing all buffs is greater than a 10% mana cut. You worked so hard to fire those specials. She’s a slightly watered down Zeline
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Not all beta testers are present in this thread. Not 50 percent of beta testers are in this thread. What percentage of beta testers are in this thread, do you figure?
Not seeing one beta tester respond “hmm” isn’t proof of anything.
Demonstrating the statistics as presented are incorrect or incorrectly interpreted would be. But I see a lot of “it’s my feeling” comments, and very little deconstruction of the original case as laid out by the OP.
If it’s exhausting to you, take a break. No need to signal to others about how tired you are - unless that signalling is also part of the point.
Also, I wasnt referencing you at all in my comments. It’s totally fair to say you don’t want to argue.
On the other hand, Suggesting that you don’t want to argue so others should be quiet would be wrong, but I have no clue what you said because I haven’t paid particular attention to the names associated with posts except for those that I thought were being unduly harsh, rude, bullying or otherwise jerkish. I guess your posts didn’t seem too bad to me, so not sure why you thought they may have. I’m sorry about that.
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Halifax what does this post have to do with the topic… all your doing is berating g him phchologicol. Just cause you haven’t named called doesn’t make it right but you got the “scorning” him down pat.
That’s a fair viewpoint. But I wouldn’t say 35% miss at avg speed for all enemies is a wash. My attack buffs (they are present in most of my teams) don’t mean much if I miss 35%of those shots 
especially if cleanser needs another set of tiles to get rid of it
Sorry if it came off that way. I didn’t feel attacked at all. But I do feel like this topic feels overstretched at this point and I can resonate with ‘Let it go’ comment. As you said, mature thing to do is not reply or take a break, which I guess most are doing right now and why some of those concerns aren’t being addressed.
I can’t put a number on it. From what I have read in past beta players are picked if they are active in forums. If they are active in forums and tested this hero, my thought was that they read this thread. I believe Zephyr is a beta tester and he is shining beacon of reason, but either he hasn’t digested these analysis or doesn’t agree with em.
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It’s the same. It’s a percentage chance vs a guaranteed -34% attack. If she’s on defense you might need to lay off the snipers when attacking. All heroes have a work around.
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I stand corrected then. They both equally good heroes to have and would be happy to land either.
For me in terms of speed diff, fast is always better. but in Zelines case you can have a cleanser + healer on standby after she goes off. In Neiths case I’d have to charge the cleanser again. So both have pros and cons depending on which one you’d rather choose
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What about Grazul? Isn’t she the perfect hero to counter Neith?
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My two cents on it, from what I saw in the other thread, and what I see in this thread:
- At a certain point, it should become clear to both sides that nobody is going to budge on their viewpoint.
- Once that becomes clear… stubbornness shouldn’t be the default, someone needs to just take the initiative to stop pointlessly arguing back and forth, doing point-by-point rebuttals, and trying to “win” the argument/thread.
- Realize that you’re arguing on the internet. Just get your point across, and don’t get all defensive if someone else doesn’t agree with your point, and especially don’t try to convince them that they need to eventually agree with your point.
I’d guess that most HOTM are tested pretty thoroughly in beta, and sure, some mistakes may get through. We see adjustments happen. Discussion on whether those adjustments are appropriate or not is fine. But folks, please don’t let it get to the point of feeling desperation that you aren’t being heard because someone still disagrees with you. 
Good gaming!
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I’m exactly planning to chase her as she will be a nice flank for my Gravemaker (War) or Aegir (raid) even if she would stay as she is now.
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LOL yes I KNEW the thread was. But the flagging of the posts is what I felt was WRONG. I was not gripping you moved the thread, as I feel you did right. I was just talking about the flagged comments only Zeph. 
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The flags were from before the thread was created, they’ve all been reviewed and addressed.