That is a good point! Yeah I’m not sure what the behavior should be then, but you are right in that Loki should be reflected.
So, I think they overwrote the special with MA as a “cheap fix” on defense. Defense always fires when mana is full (and not silenced), so hey… just change the skill, and it works automatically!
But they can’t do that for offense heroes, because no smart player would willingly fire when MA was on. So it’s entirely different logic… and completely baffles me why they’d do that for defense when you have to implement another method for offense… which should also work for defense.
Maybe they will end up changing it. But it still works on offensive heroes too because the target “Automatically cast Mindless Attack on a random ally when mana is full” - the decision to fire or not is taken away, and only prevented by not filling mana.
Are you sure? I’m referencing the OP Video. Why 2nd Loki copy mindless attack status? That is what happen in that video.
Okay it means, if the statuses is Minless Attack, then Loki copy special status NOT the actual special skill of the hero it self, because it changed.
And this is only happen for Mindless Attack status and maybe the like Hansel and Gretel, and maybe Miki. ???
TLDR; what will the opponent/target will cast in current position, that will be copied by Loki. Is this correct? If this is what intended, then it is not bugs, but too complex to describe it.
Seems like find another matrix bug, but i think beta testers didnt test this situation…
It’s an interesting distinction, but he didn’t copy the status effect but rather the new special. In the video Loki never received the mindless attack status effect.
If I’m understanding you correctly, this is exactly right. To be more clear I’m reading this as “then Loki copies the mindless attack special, NOT the actual special of the hero itself because it changed.”
I don’t think either of these cases changes the target’s special - but I’ll double check (with Peter’s silence since I don’t have Mki) and add screenshots below.
I think an easier way of explaining this is to look at whatever the target’s special currently is, and that is what I would expect Loki to cast. I would say Jott is an example of a bug, since it is not cast as Loki’s “own Special Skill” but rather as Jott’s special.
Hansel debuff (doesn’t change special)
Peter’s debuff (also doesn’t change special)
I don’t have Lord Loki to test, but because their specials didn’t change I would expect Loki to be able to copy them.
Yes I see both Loki does not have any status effect.
And what do you mean with new special? It is status effect MA ailment exacly suicide self-attack.
The 2nd Loki in left side COPY the status ailment, not like the 1st Loki cast in the right side.
Let me clear it up:
- 1st Loki (right side) cast to Alfrike, copied and create status ailment (Midless Attack) on Joon, Zimkitha and Alfrike
- 2nd Loki (left side) cast to Alfrike, now Alfrike is on condition has status ailment Mindless Attack, so Loki copied not the Alfrike special, instead the status Ailment, because Alfrike ready to cast self-attack, then so do Loki.
This means if oppponent has MA status ailment, then Loki is suicide.
EDIT: OK, I understand now, Mindless Attack is the only one that can change the special skill into different action. So just do not cast to Mindless Attack which will become suicide or attack random allies.
So we need some comments of SG agents: any idea how to fix or its not a bug, as usual?
Doesn’t MA automatically fire when mana is full even on offense?
I suppose the question is: Is Mindless Attack a status effect?
It changes the hero’s Special Attack but then what Lord Loki sees to copy is the Changed Special, NOT the original special. So, really, it does seem to be working as intended.
Yes, but on defense they didn’t have to code that specially because defense always fires automatically at full mana.
I tested lord Loki with three different heroes that affect mana generation of the enemy and these are the results:
Zocc: I cast Zocc mindless attack first and then lord Loki hurt himself when I used his special attack against the same enemy.
Hansel and Proteus: I cast their special attacks first but lord Loki DIDN’T attack himself. He just cast the enemy’s special attack.
IMO, it’s a bit tricky.
There is no reason for Lord Loki to attack himself after Proteus attacks. With Hansel he should have damaged himself if mana was full within 3 turns.
I think a lot are missing things here. ONLY mindless attack changes the special . Loki copies specials. So only mindless attack will backfire like that. Easy solution, don’t cast on an enemy under mindless attack.
When Loki 1 copies Alfrikes “Cube of Dark Realm” Loki fires Cube of Dark Realm and hits Alfrike.
After that Alfrike’s special changes to “Mindless Attack” (there is no ailment or whatsoever, the special changes).
So when Loki 2 copies Alfikes, Loki actually copies “Mindless Attack”. Since Loki copied that and his mana bar is full, he attacks a random ally.
Solution: Don’t cast Loki on a opponent whose special has changed to Mindless Attack.
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This issue was alredy mentioned in topic about Lord loki specials. Topic was closed without any response or comment from staff. But this issue should be fixed. Herroes whose specials are to cast he mindless attacks simply override specials of target although the mindless attack is an ailments and not an special. And heroes like Alfrike, Merlin or Zocc has specials to cast the mindless attacks, not “override targets specials to…”. I belive (and it was mentioned before) it was done because it was easy to code this way and was done before hero like Lord Loki was introduced. Now they have to fix that code and set it up right way, not cheap way.
That is your belief. Old players have the contrary belief as well. We already knew how Mindless Attack works when we have obtained, leveled and maxed Merlin from the Avalon portal years ago. Though the skill description does not procedurally say it, but that is how it works, unless it is blocked, resisted or withstood due to talents and/or skills.
I think Loki is working just fine, he is copying the Mindless Attack.
I don’t speak cirillic languages, but second Loki"s attack shows a different skill name when activated, and I’m pretty confident the word “ataka” means “attack”, so it’s actually telling you which “special skill” is copying.