Is fixing gravemaker on the agenda

Thanks. That was my thought but did want to confirm given it was framed as an effective strategy. Didn’t want people to pick up badly thought out advice and wonder why their team was turning to ash :slight_smile:

Zimkitha and other dispellers are also very good against GM. GM doesn’t need to be nerfed (like others, I lose very often with a GM tank), but he does require you to bring a prepared team. Most of GM’s damage is DoT, so if you can avoid it or dispel it, you make him mostly impotent.


I beat GM teams often. He stings but he’s not un-beatable.

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Agreed. Picky point: the jargon is that Zimkitha, Rigard, et al. “Cleanse”. “Dispel” is usually understood to mean clearing away enemy buffs, like Melendor and Sabina.

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Are there any “indispellable” ailments though? Because i think that is part of the confusion. Thought i read a description somewhere with that word combo, maybe morgan le fays?

But yea

Buffs = dispel
Ailments = cleanse

Has always been my understanding

Fair, SGG does use the term “cannot be dispelled” on both sides of the aisle, e.g. Perseus:

But who gave them the right to update the The E&P Jargon-Pulverising Fictionary (glossary, definitions, dictionary) ?

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Onatel too. Blasphemy!

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“Can not be cleansed” would be awesome wording if they would be willing to change it


It does not stop being curious as the interests create topics and the users sacralize them. Everyone agrees that a hero, which is only valid for one thing, that is soft (I always look for it in raids, it is a corridor secured with 3 purples) and dies with 3 pieces. That has a lot of myth, because to me, with the failures of the game and that people already know how to exploit them, that I have one of the best defense teams with it, I earn more than 60% of attacks, we all agree that It is unbalanced, although it uses less than 30% of the top 500 and as a niche. On the other hand, this character, who is worth everything, who very quickly is out of balance, who dies worse, say what you say, that forces certain heroes to use quadrat or not, dissipaters, which is lethal in attack and defense and that is represented in 80% of that same top, is not looked at the same. What makes having or not having a hero in this game, is a constant “to see if I benefit by convincing others.”

It’s a bit comical reading all the folks in this thread trying to downplay Gravemaker. :joy:

He’s unquestionably the best hero in the game, and that’s the reason you see him ubiquitously across the leaderboard and throughout all of the top alliances—on the best teams, for those with the most resources, often you see single teams with multiple GMs. He’s the best flank, the best wing, and if not the best tank (and he might be) then the second best. He’s great on defense and attacking, and he’s a murderer of green titans. He’s great at every facet of the game.

No one in their right mind is ascending Azlar or Kestrel or Marj or Khagan or any other red over Gravemaker. Sure, maybe if you’ve never drawn a healer and have Red Hood, maybe—maybe you’d think about ascending her. (And even then, you should still go with Grave.)

All of that is not to say that he’s overpowered—but it is to say that if anyone in the game right now is OP, it’s him.

(I know, I know, some might be tempted to say it’s Guinevere, but I disagree. Guin is good at one, and only one, aspect of the game: she’s a great defensive tank. She is the worst legendary yellow on titans. She’s the worst legendary yellow attacker. She’s a mediocre defensive flank, and a borderline useless wing. Grave is, and I’m only slightly exaggerating, better than everyone at everything.)

The real problem though—despite all this—isn’t so much with Gravemaker as it is with so many other heroes in the game. It’s fine to have a hero that’s better than others. What you don’t want is a hero that’s so obviously better than every other. The difference between Grave and, say, Hood or Zimkithia or Marj is forgivable; the difference between him and Elena or Khagan or Kestrel is not. And red is probably the strongest, most balanced color in the game.

Having a hero so obviously great at so many aspects of the game and having others—like Horghall and Obakan and Thorne—who are terrible at every facet is what makes Gravemaker so obviously imbalanced.


Amen. Yes I think this thread should be about how he can be adjusted to be in line with other heroes and not such an outlier, and of course he can be beaten, but is anyone’s win percentage against him really better than other heros? I think if his dot was over 4 turns instead of 2 , or if he was changed to fast mana, or if his defense stat was lowered, or some combination of these three he could be brought in line. Easier to do that than to buff nearly every other hero in the game up to his level. And it really should be done before a large number of people get him emblemed up with full bleed as that is going to be ridiculous. But of course the cries from all the people who have emptied their wallets for him would be a public relations nightmare. Because there have been relatively few hero adjustments in this game compared to other similar games it would be difficult to start implementing more robust balancing now. I guess we will see what version 20 and Zynga’s infusion of resources will bring.

I don’t think every hero needs to be equal, but I do think it’s important—given the rarity of legendary heroes for the vast majority of players—that heroes be good at at least some aspect of the game. Every hero doesn’t need balancing, but there are a good 10 to 12 who could use a good bit of tweaking.

That sort of balancing, I think, would make heroes like Grave far less out of line with the rest.


I think we just need a few more options for cleansers to counter Gravemaker and his very fast special. There aren’t many now so it’s understandable that some people might struggle against him. Sure Rigard is widely available but a board with no purples is going to hurt his average speed and not everyone has Zim and other HOTMs to bring to battle. Instead of nerfing Grave, a fast 4* cleanser would bring nice balance for F2P players. Another widely available cleanser in another element would be nice.

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Also don’t forget sorcerers are soon going to start lowering his mana by 50%. A fully leveled sorcerer will usually take away 50% mana generation in one set of tiles. GM will have no defense against that benefit and will make a large difference. The emblems are going to change the way we play when we start getting close to +20, especially with 5*+20


As per this statement, I definitely believe the best is Zeline. Also Yunan, Guin, Kage, Alasie, and Hel make it on the same level or higher than Gravemaker. Why did you disregard nearly all of them?


Have you ever seen a team with two Zelines? No. She is a great hero, to be sure, but she can’t put teams down the way Grave can.

I addressed the arguments for Guin above, and the same goes for Yunan.

Alasie is a great sniper—maybe the best of them—but unless you need blue and don’t need red, you’re not going to take her over Grave. She does less damage and takes longer to charge, and she’s just not the game changer he is.

Kage is comparable, but he hits one enemy whereas Grave mows down 3/5s of a team. Sure, much of Grave’s damage is dispellable, but more often than not, his fires are gonna hit faster and more often than any dispeller can put them out. And it’s not like Kage doesn’t poop the bed every now and again himself, hitting a target with less than half its hit points for 225% instead of 450%.

I’ll give you Hel, but even she 1) takes longer to activate, 2) does less damage, and 3) also has an effect that is nullified by a well-timed cleanse.


I’ve never brought Gravemaker to green titans and I never will… I have much better choices.

I’ve had more raids than I can count where Gravemaker gets his special off 2 or even 3 times and while tough to manage, he doesn’t “mow my team down” and I can still get the win.

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Gravemaker is nullified by a well timed cleansr as well.

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What exactly are you arguing here

I think we can all agree that grave is top 2 in the game easily

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