@Petri: If there’s discussion of changing QoH’s text, I would offer the following suggestion, because it matches the behavior we’ve seen:
“No heroes without Taunt can be targeted by specials while an allied hero has Taunt active.”
…or something like that. That would make it clear that multiple Taunting QoHs/BKs don’t protect each other, which is implied by the current text.
But not when the buffing hero is killed. If a riposter fires and then dies the heroes beside him still riposte.
…you didn’t actually read what I wrote, did you? Of course an effect with a source other than a hero doesn’t end when the hero dies; the hero isn’t the source of the effect.
What? You can spin this however you want, but your weird interpretation on what I said doesn’t match what I actually said.
What they’re saying is:
When Boril casts he gives himself and nearby allies riposte. When any one of those heroes, who NOW HAVE THE RIPOSTE ABILITY ACTIVE, dies, they cease to have that ability.
When QoH casts, SHE does Not have a taunt ability. The Minion has the Taunt ability. The minion dies, taunt ability should go away.
This is like if Boril casts, and next to him is GM. When GM dies, GM no longer has riposte. He will have dealt riposte damage while dying, however. Unless kageburado specialed him first.
@MuaddibMcfly thanks for doing the heavy lifting trying to answer these questions. FWIW I’m with ya!
Sorry if I wasn’t clear.
Ah, ok that makes more sense with him firing twice.
I guess this is possibly a good way to explain current behavior.
Targeting. If targeting is a one step process then that could explain the difference between Grimbler and Kageburrito.
(Note; I don’t think this is optimal, especially considering the heroes involved. But it’s at least a good explanation imo!)
(Edit: I’m trying to think of an example where “targeting” would be impacted in some way like this… any ideas?)
I’m not sure if it’s what you had in mind, but I asked about the blue chain hitters earlier in the thread (Finley, Misandra, CoD). Their specials are written recursively, so I posed the question of what happens if the first hit kills the card minion - does the chain get to target a new enemy?
I have none of these heroes, so I depend on others’ experiences to answer those questions.
What I’m saying is we have a sort-of answer from SGG that it’s “working as intended” and we are trying to figure out what that means. Whether we think it makes logical sense or not is irrelevant to that since it currently is what it is.
One way for it to make sense is if the minion casts the ability on the hero each turn it exists so the hero still has the ability when the minion dies for that turn. It is the owner that taunts, not the minion. That then fits with SGG’s “working as intended”; whether we agree with it or not is another issue entirely.
Boril’s card doesn’t say “the caster gives themself and nearby allies counterattack,” it says that they counterattack.
It’s a question of who is the subject of the sentence. You covered that in grade school, right? How the subject is that which does the action?
Boril’s life ending doesn’t end the action for other heroes, because they are part of the subject, too, and therefore can do it themselves.
Think of it in terms of buying beers. The analog of how Boril’s card is written would be “Boril and his friends buy 5 drinks.” Boril’s friends can still buy the remainder of their drinks even if Boril gets kicked out by a bouncer.
The analog of how QoH’s card is written would be “Card Minions buy the QoH her drinks.” Who buys the QoH her drinks if all the Card Minions have been kicked out?
Not the only way by any stretch.
Another, more plausible way, is that they didn’t bother considering an edge case and wrote the code wrong because for the overwhelming majority of them, there was no difference, in effect, between how it currently works and how the cards say it works.
Also, you keep saying “turn” which is NOT how it behaves; if there are no card minions alive, you can target other heroes with impunity, even if there were card minions alive at the beginning of the turn.
You’re just gonna take for granted that SG is correct?
My first post here I told Petri he’s wrong. So, that’s sorta my thinking here 
I disagree with you in the “turn” thing. I don’t personally believe that’s a reasonable explanation.
The targeting thing OTOH. I do think that’s a reasonable way to explain it.
Unfortunately, I also think for this particular interaction it is suboptimal. Niche hero can’t even do the one thing he should be good at, ya know. So I think SG at least got it wrong in that way. And also, unless their reasoning is the targeting (or some other very logical behind the scenes game rule) then imma keep calling BS
I’m more confused than when this story started, but I could go for a beer now.
That’s a good point. If you killed the QoH minion with a Magni Blast, THEN activates grimblr, the Taunt would be gone and Grumble would hit everyone and their mother
Whatever.
I am not saying I agree or disagree. I am saying that is SG’s position, just as their position is that summons and gems are random. So far all tests we’ve done provide data that support the random position. But without some idea on the mechanism we have no way of testing the minion position. Show me I’m wrong with data and I’ll be happy to say so. Arguing based on suppositions and what you THINK should happen gets us nowhere.
Apparently you missed the fact that the entire discussion was about how the evidence doesn’t align with what should happen, based on every other piece of evidence we have to date.
No, I didn’t. But your comment doesn’t surprise me.
The other ones I can think of, are Sonya and Caedmon. They first target one hero with damage and then target all enemies (that can be targeted) with dispel. I am not 100 sure, but when they are blind for example, I think they can still dispel enemies even if the damage part has missed.
I think maybe there is a confusion about “Taunt woking as intended” and “QoH working as intended”. If Black Knight has Taunt and him and his allies have minions, it makes sense that his Taunt persists and his allies keep their minions and do not receive damage.
But as discussed many times above, QoH does not have Taunt (you can check when her minion is alive there is no Taunt buff on her, only Special Skill defense), her minion does. So when it goes away, Taunt should go away too.
Another interaction with minions: when Leonidas deals damage and kills a Fox Minion, his target is affected by the removing mana part of his special?
Edit: minor text fixes.
It does, on the next turn. I think some people view the minion like a special or intrinsic part of the hero…it isn’t. Its like its own mini-hero, and if it has a special it can cast then that special will persist until its duration is over, or - one would assume - until it is dispelled