I’ll split us off into a new thread.
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Thanks, @Garanwyn for keeping my favorite thread clean!
@SirGorash Happy to keep the convo rolling or let it die. Up to you!
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To be honest I didn’t know this thread existed. It was a good idea to bring all those posts here. Let’s keep the convo civil 
@Cvs Sure bro, I’ll just finish what I’m doing right now and I’ll be back to read everything tonight.
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I have a problem with people referencing the players of this game as “customers” and this leading to a failure in “customer service” by SG.
Players are not customers. This app is downloadable and playable as a free game. There are optional in app purchases that can be made, but it is a free game. I don’t view players as customers.
Here is the way I see it. A group of people some time ago created this game. They designed it with their own vision of what it would be. Once it was coded and tested, it was released into the market as a free game.
The success they have had since primary release does not change the fact that we are playing their game. Their vision.
I don’t have any issue with constructive criticism of this game. I often like critical posts if they are presented with a potential solution. I DO have an issue with a critical post which is either ignorant of how the game works in an aggressive manner or is asking to change something which is central to the design of the game (such as RNG complaints).
I like this game a lot as it is. That is not to say it can’t be better. I also appreciate the game creators and designers for both their original product as well as the features they continue to add. It is, in the end, their game. I am happy to have found it. I am using their product, but I think calling me a customer is not an accurate description of our relationship. They have a program. I would call myself a user. It may seem like a minor parsing of words, but the expectations are very different.
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I agree with like 99% of this and the overall spirit of your post is 100% spot on. I think you hit the nail on the head. Knocked it out of the park. Are on target. …Pick your favorite I agree with you saying.
The only part we disagree is semantics, in which I would call users customers. F2P or otherwise, you are using a platform that SG developed and is monetizing either through in app purchases or via ad revenue. In my book, and for sure in theirs, that makes us all customers. But that is all really splitting hairs.
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I get what you mean but I’d still call myself a customer. A very loyal customer. Even as a ftp I have never stopped watching their ads. And I do like the game, despite my constant nagging in all those complaint threads. All my posts there have a reason to be.
I think you forgot about this rule in the community guidelines:
• Give constructive feedback and discuss openly any game-related subjects, as well as community related improvement ideas. Give examples on how you would improve the game & community.
Our definition of constructive criticism is probably different. I tend to be too harsh when I criticize. I blame my bad english for that. It’s not as good as it should be. I don’t criticize the game because I hate it tho, it’s actually the opposite. I wanna make that clear.
@Cvs I forgot how the discussion started. I think it began because I was labeled an entitled whiner in the MV thread. All I was doing is stating why I think MV is not as good as it was before. Yes is free but the 8 hour change affects me and other people who work during the day. Being called a whiner by another regular player like you was disrespectful. I don’t know why mods let things like that slide.
To be fair tho, I did call you a tuff guy in a happy safe space. I apologize about that but I still disagree with most things you said in that thread.
Asking for a change is not whining, and it definitely is not about entitlement. I’d say customers are entitled to ask for improvements tho, even in games because it’s true. Game companies are businesses that depend on their customers. Any good company knows that ignoring their customers is a bad idea.
In the end is up to SG if they implement those changes or not, so I don’t see the point of continuing this discussion or arguing between regular players. It was fun tho, honestly 
Have a good night, dudes 
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@SirGorash Did you mean to reply to me with that first comment? I mean, my last post points out that SG themselves considers us customers, so the label seems apt…
If you’re trying to argue that this website itself is the same thing as calling customer service, though, you’re wrong. You may be a customer of SG, but that does not make your posts on the forum customer service calls.
Again, it’s focus is players talking to players.
Also, discuss openly means multiple people talking. You seem to be arguing not for a discussion, but a monologue where people who wish to complain have a say, and nobody gets to respond or disagree.
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I certainly don’t audit every thread all the time, particularly ones that I consider both unproductive and uninteresting. I would characterize the MV threads recently as both, so In haven’t been reading any of them at all (up until I just had to merge a post into one).
But the flag feature exists because mods aren’t expected to be everywhere. If someone flags a post wherein people are being specifically referred to as whiners, we will generally accept the flag and hide the post.
And despite what some may think, we also try not to be overzealous. If a post that we consider borderline goes unflagged, we will generally shrug and move on, under the assumption that no one else was bothered, so maybe it’s just us.
I’m looking through the flag log and see no posts like that flagged in the last several days so I’m assuming that whatever this is regarding, you didn’t bring it to our attention.
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They gotta b doing something right I would say to have pieces like this written up…
That’s all. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but just remember that however u feel ya can’t call this game unpopular or generally disliked. Frustrating. Sure at times but also fun like 99% of the time. Just my 2 cents
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i have spent over 200.00 this week and havent gotten the player of the month. Why? I spend hundreds of dollars on this game and never have received a player of the month. Why? Who do i complain to?
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Unfortunately the why is bad luck, the who is the mirror.
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Because it’s an online casino, and like in normal casinos spending lots of money doesn’t earn you a prize. All it does is make you spend alot of money most of the time for nothing.
SG carefully crafted this to be neither fun, nor fair, but to be an income generating app. Everything from tweaking the spawn rates of tiles to keep you losing enough to want to spend to “power up” but winning enough to not uninstall to the low rates of chance on getting that “power up” (new shiny power creep hero) that you want ensuring that you need to spend more, and then more, in the hopes that sunk cost fallacy kicks in and you get so invested that you don’t go anywhere. Then there’s blatant pay to win mechanics like Raid Tourney which will make sure you need those gems to stay in the running. Then there’s alliances, which are group activities also designed to encourage you to spend (you need to be strong to be in a good alliance, and social interactions means you don’t want to disappoint your new friends by scoring low in war despite that being completely and utterly out of your control). Everything, by design, encourages spending.
This isn’t entirely a dig at SG, they are a business and businesses exist to make money. Everyone who pays is a customer and anyone who doesn’t is encouraged by low odds and gentle nudging to become one. They make money, and in return provide new content and features like Atlantis and the new harpoons and such.
But the reality is, despite encouraging you to do so E&P is a casino. You gamble on a chance to get some something you want and the more you have the less likely you will get something worth your while because you might just get a duplicate. The new hero academy coming may address this, we need to know more about the mechanics before we can say for sure. Reality, though, is this:
Spending $20 or $200 or $2000 will not mean you get anything you want to get. If you come into it with the mindset that you spend so you should get [Y] you will be disappointed 90% of the time. So don’t do that. Only spend what you can afford and think of it as a night out at the slots: expect to lose money and gain nothing. Then if you actually get something you want it’ll be a pleasant surprise.
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Which is why i spend my dollars on the offers that include ascension items I need. No surprises!
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Which is good if you have heroes you need to ascend, but if you’ve reached the point where you want a new hero you just pull the lever.
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I do pull the lever, I do one or two 10x pulls on Atlantis each month plus a possible quest if I like the heroes.
For my peace of mind however, I see the summons as a “bonus” that comes with the offers of ascension items and gems.
It’s just my way of avoiding disappointment- I keep my expectations of summons very low 
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I guess it depends on your definition of “fun” and “fair.”
Everyone having the same chance per summoning is definitely fair. But if you mean that more money spent doesn’t reliably produce better results, then you are correct.
It’s about equality of opportunity, not equality of result. And much like real life, working hard doesn’t guarantee results. You can kill 12* titans month in and month out and still get screwed by the RNG.
As for fun, it’s a resource optimization game that rewards long-term planning, and requires effort over months to produce results. If that’s not your thing, you’re going to hate it. It’s way too slow and random for some people.
There’s very good evidence that this is incorrect, and that the tiles are drawn from a uniform random distribution.
I agree that the 5 day format tilts the field toward spending. I’ve made top 1% multiple times without paying for continues, but I’ve also crapped out early. I’ve advocated people not pay for continues to encourage SG upping the loot…but I don’t think anyone listens.
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Then your odds are worse than the casion because i could take that amount of money and win atleast once. So since im not winning at your casion is it rigged?
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Who’s “you” here? We’re all players just like you. SG staff do read the forum and comment occasionally, but the main purpose is for players to talk with each other and help each other.
The probabilities for each kind of outcome are published in the summonings gates, and 5* heroes are low probability. Summonings are also something like $3 USD a pull. If you played $3 slots, you could easily drop $200 and win nothing that excited you.
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“Then your odds are worse than the casion because i could take that amount of money and win atleast once. So since im not winning at your casion is it rigged?”
…or you can take that amount of money and not at all win. That’s what makes it gambling. Also… that “win at least once” would still be an overall loss right? Unless you are up for the night then you’ve lost. SG, however, will argue that every single pull of the lever is “a win” because you “get something” and can feed that “something” to a hero you already have.
There’s very good evidence that this is incorrect, and that the tiles are drawn from a uniform random distribution.
In order to win an argument with an alliance-mate about whether 3-2 or 2-2-1 is better to bring in raids, I build an “empire and puzzles starting board builder” that used an equal distribution for tiles (1/5 chance for each color) and made sure that it didn’t generate illegal board (boards with matches right at the start). Then it tallied stats about chances of matching your desired color at the start, number of desired colored tiles, things like that. The result was that much more starting boards were desirable than what is seen in game.
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