Zocc (& other Mana Controllers) vs Ninja Heroes

confused, how would zocc special work against ninjas

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I don’t have Zocc levelled so didn’t test this specifically but based on other testing it will work like this:

  • Ninja has 70% mana
  • Zocc casts
  • Ninja now has 120% mana (1x & then 20% towards 2x)
  • Mindless attack triggers
  • Ninja loses all mana (goes to 0%) because they have “Cast” their special skill which is now “mindless attack” not whatever it normally is.

If someone who has a levelled zocc wants to confirm it by testing in the Ninja Tower that would be great :slight_smile:

Mindless Attack Heroes
So Alfrike or Merlin

  • Ninja has 70% mana
  • Target & cast Mindless Attack on Ninja
  • When mana is full, Ninja Hero will cast Mindless attack (per usual)
  • Ninja loses all mana (goes to 0% regardless of if they are at 1x, 2x or 3x charge) because they have “Cast” their special skill which is now “mindless attack” not whatever it normally is.

Witch Hunters – Hansel, Gretel & Pixie
Updating this section:
The Witch Slayer skill basically just removes 50% charge from the targetted hero:

  • Ninja hero has 80% mana
  • Targetted by Hansel skill
  • Ninja hero mana increases to 120% mana
  • Handel’s effect kicks in & chops off HP & removes 50% mana
  • Ninja hero now has 70% mana.

If a ninja hero has more than 1x charge after applying the mana cut, in the subsequent turn, they will have their mana cut again.

  • Ninja hero has 230% mana
  • Targetted by Hansel
  • Mana is cut by 50% down to 180%.
  • Next turn, mana is cut by 50% again to 130%
  • Next turn, mana is cut by 50% again to 80%

In the event of a Ninja Hero being silenced:

Say you target a Ninja Hero with a silence hero (Say Miki or Peters):

  • Ninja hero will keep filling mana, as do any other heroes in the game.
  • Can overclock while silenced (i.e. go to 2x or 3x charge… the mana just keeps on filling).
  • Then when the silence ends, the Ninja Hero will cast their ability PROVIDED they are at the pre-determined “trigger point” (or higher) – This is as the Ninja Heroes will sometimes hold their special skill to cast on 2x or 3x charge. Read more about it here: 🏯 Ninja Hero Thoughts & Discussion Thread

In the scenario of mana cutting.

Say Ninja hero has 120% mana (1x charge & 20% charge of the 2x charge) and are then targetted by a Mana Cutter (Say Chao):

  • Starts on 120% mana
  • Chao cuts 25% mana
  • Ninja Troop now has 95% mana.

Not forget about Merlin and Alfrike…
We will know within the next few days.

And what about silence from peters and miki?

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Silence works like a silence does :stuck_out_tongue:

Merlin & Alfrike will work the same as Zocc, just minus the “gains 50% mana” bit.

They can still gain mana but just can’t trigger the casting of the special skill.

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Yes, but if the ninja is RNGed to fire after first fill and gets silenced while still at 80% mana for first fill and is then charged to 20% of 2nd fill. Will ninja cast when silence ends?

Edit: will ninja start Then after casting with already 20% mana?

What about ninja being on 20% for 2nd fill(100%+20%=120%) and chao reduces mana by 25%. Will ninja be on 95% (120%-25%) for first fill or on 0% for 2nd fill.

Many possibilities and questions. :roll_eyes:

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I used Hansel in the tower earlier. His buff didn’t trigger until the 3rd filling (but this was a data set of 1) So it may be rng like when they fire?

But based on my limited data I would guess that they need to be “full” full


This is what my group also would like to know. This is one odd variable.

Took some key highlights of my broadcast today as you can tell there are some holes in logic, kind of sorta but pretty challenging.

Full highlight


Ok so I have updated this post here with some more detailed information regarding Mana Controllers (various types) vs. the Ninja Heroes.

@Sh3r1ff, @jahjah, @DBC & @LurkerL


Thanks @Guvnor and @LurkerL for the analysis und updates. Very interesting, what happens to multi mana charges under mana control ailments of any kind


How would you guys go about best use of Mitsuko and Ursena then. In my little video the enemies didn’t automatically cast their specials when I had reflect active and with tower -1 status it can be very much down to luck. The only solution I see here is hope rng is on your side. (mitsuko is already out this tower so I just have Ursena)


And there are no Yellow damage or create status ailment Ninja isn’t it? Only Mica which is only buff to allies. :sweat_smile:

I notice this,… well AI is become smarter with this optional wether Ninja will cast or not, and not depend on full 3x mana bar, that’s so strage.
Thanks for the videos, that help alot :+1:


Agreed. I feel they stuck a little code “if mitsuko reflect is up > wait to cast super” hahaha. I mean she still mana cuts also a bit but you know :slight_smile:


The Ninja’s mana bar turns back to a normal mana bar while under mindless attack debuff. If it fills up, the mindless attack triggers. I recorded this while running the first day’s flags.

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So my question is the only change I see here is the 0 is gone and it’s just a mana bar. Doesn’t 0 = regular mana bar yes?


as I said:


Hey man. Can you explain this to me like a 5 year old…you know just incase anybody else didn’t understand :slight_smile:

  1. Ninja Hero has 150% mana (1x charge & 50% of the way to 2x charge)

  2. Ninja hero is targetted by Mindless Attack (Say by Merlin or Alfrike)

  3. Ninja Hero casts Mindless attack

  4. Ninja Hero’s mana goes to 0% (i.e. all gone).


LurkerL: Can you please explain?
5 year old: Zocc do magic on bad ninja guy. Bad ninja guy do magic? Hit other bad ninja guy. No more bad ninja guy magic left.


Thank you. This I gathered from my clip when merlin reduced ninjas mana down to 0 from his stack I guess I just didn’t get this wording rather “because they have “Cast” their special skill which is now “mindless attack” not whatever it normally is.”

Very good thank you!

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