[Working As Intended - No Bug] JF def. buff vs NORNS debuff (Staff Response Post 21)

Hello,

i fought NORN with JF. When i had buff from JF (New status aliments affecting defence will be replaced by 42% defence for 4 turns). Norns used her skill and I got Defesively weak agains:Ice.

Is that bug? I think JF buff is clear and should cancel Norns debuff.

Norns skill is to make the target “weak against the element they are strong against”, this is not a element def debuff like G. Falcon’s or King Arthur’s. The description of Norns should be worded better :woman_shrugging:

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My opinion is that Norns debuff affect defence and therefore JF buff should work for that.

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Norns isn’t a direct defence stat modifier… Only alters the “elemental resistance” COLOUR…

Logic I’m using is that every hero who is flipped/ reversed by Jean Francois skill has both an Icon (status effect) AND a % modifier to either elemental defence or normal defence.
Norns only puts a status effect out.

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Always an exception to every rule

It’s the SmallGiant way

:man_shrugging:

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Norns it’s not a defense debuff from my POV… Basically she changes enemies color as Chameleon as enemies keep as weak color for 2 colours… No def down and won’t affect enemies special damage output…

Hmm was disappointed having just tried mid-levelled JF vs Norns in Vanaheim… thought perhaps would work given the status icon is a shield with arrow down.

But I defended SG on “dispel” vs “remove” thing, so I guess I’ll have to say I understand if JF only works vs % def down, not “weak” lol. It’s a cool icon, but… maybe they could change it to say a shield broken in half.

That’s true. Norns does produce the trademark “Shield with Down Arrow” icon synonomous with the Defense Down ailment although the Norns ailments icon is a multi-colored shield and not one geared to a specific element.

Screenshot_20200328-081003_Empires

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I still don’t see the benefit of norns at all personally so havin trouble even gettin into the whole discussion

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Found while playing season 3, that Norns is able to lower heroes defense against element they are strong against even after JF"s special is active.

The way I read JF is that he provides a defensive buff against every super that impacts defense. If this is the case shouldn’t he provide protection against Norns?

It’s not a defense debuff, as you can see the explanation from the same question:

Merge pls, @Guvnor :heart:

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Merged, thanks! :heart_decoration:

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I honestly would have to agree. The implementation of an ailment icon with a shield w/Down Arrow is a signature defense ailment icon.

Jean-Francois’ specials also say in the first sentence regarding Defense flip protection:

All allies get Defense Status Ailment Protection for 4 turns.

Notwithstanding any other defense ailment modifiers based on percentages (such as the reversal for 42% defense increase), that first sentence alone should keep Norns from even landing the effect. @Petri, why does Norns produce a defense ailment icon, if JF’s special doesn’t protect his allies from the Defense Ailment? Shouldn’t Norns have some other cue, if it’s not considered true Defense Down?

Reason why I wrote this topic was based on Norns defense icon. If there is any other icon, I would agree that JF do not protect from this debuff.

Although JF’s description says “new status ailments affecting defense” NOT “new defense status ailments accompanied by a %age reduction”.

His description is fairly encompassing so should address Norns

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Agreed.

They should either create a new icon for Norns ailment and rephrase her special or just allow JF to flip it.

It shouldn’t be so complicated to give her ailment a new icon

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Is she really putting an ailment onto the defense thou? All she is doing is changing what element the hero is naturally weaker against… you can have a defense buff on a green hero and the attack of a red will still be stronger then that of blue. Albeit both are nurtured do to the buff.
Norns special doesn’t directly affect the amount of defense

But it does effect the defense by implementing a calculated Defense Down percentage against the element a hero is typically strong against by the same calculation made against elements the hero is weak against. It’s calculated by the same “weak against/strong against” calculations that have always been in place using the element cycle only in this case, if you can picture it, the arrows would go towards the affected heroes element from the other elements…

Screenshot_20200330-141535_Empires

I get what you’re saying she essentially rotates the arrows from your screenshot. And yes theres a calculation made to lower the defense to a specific element but it isnt actually lowering the physical value of the base defense number. I think this is very much like the “cleanse” “remove” argument.

Something has to be lower. Otherwise an Ice attack on a Nature ally wouldn’t result in a strong hit.

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