Why, why not and how to balance out mono colored teams? Suggestions!

@Rigs and @MantisToboggan mentioned that using mono colored teams (5 heroes of the same color) could possibly make the discussion about ''Who’s the toughest tank?" a little pointless. No matter what hero get’s released in order to rival with Guinevere as tank, people will use the mono colored teams tactic to beat them anyway.

I asked them the next thing:

@Snowdoggydogg suggested the following:

Perhaps you don’t agree with a prevention rule to make mono colored teams weaker or impossible. Then, please share why you think so! The other way around also. If you do agree, what other ideas are out there in your bright minds?

Maybe add some pros and cons to it.

@Rigs you mentioned that someone suggested it before. I couldn’t find the thread or post. Can you?

It was just a post and not a thread, if i remember right. Sooo i would have to scrounge through pretty much every thread within the past 6 months to find it lol hence why i suggested makin a thread rather than continuing to discuss through posts

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Alright!

First thing that crosses my mind.

It doesn’t take away the huge increasement of tile damage, but it certainly gives a major penatly to color stacking.

I also think that by degrading mana gained from tiles, already strong tanks such as Guinevere will actually become even stronger. That probably isn’t a much requested change. :laughing: Limiting the amount of colors used within a team also makes them stronger, but not as much.


I would however not vote for such a change during titan battles. It might make taking the stronger titans down quite more (if not too) difficult.

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Many players think this is already a thing, so I can imagine an official game mechanic that discourages stacking would cause quite an uproar.

I actually do like the idea in theory, but it’s how to execute it that gets tricky. For example, titans might also need to be completely rebalanced since color stacking is a common strategy for those fights.

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People are killing the top titans again in less than 10 minutes. Top alliances are stocking up on 50 to 100+ titan flasks lol I’d say they could use a challenge( idk why they wanted 13* and 14* titans removed so badly lol)

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I would suggest heros that target color stacked teams but we are already seeing heros who target color stacked teams more(mitsuko and kunchen) which in my opinion, may be the better option but due to RNG summons it may take a pretty long time before we see these heros make a difference outside of the top 100

This option wouldnt hinder titan teams, only effect raids and wars. Just would be a sloooow process to see the transition outside of players who spend decent amounts

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The downside is that players who stack colors are still in control (most of the times) of wether or not to harm themselves, by using a special attack on Mitsuko and Kunchen.

Perhaps adding a different kind of ‘‘link’’ (as in the elemental link) to certain heroes might target color stacked teams more effectively. Or simply adjust the skill.

For example:

Mitsuko

  • All allies reflect all status effects, 110% from Ice Special Skills and normal attacks back to the attacker for 4 turns.

or

Mitsuko

  • All allies reflect all status effects and 110% from Ice Special Skills back to the attacker for 4 turns.
  • Punishing Link (Edit: Balancing Link suits better): All allies reflect 50% from Ice normal attacks back to the attackerS for 4 turns.

No, this is a horrible idea and only serves to keep the elite in the elite. I don’t know why you want to make raiding even harder on the f2p or c2p players. It seems backwards. If people want to gamble on the board with a mono color team, why would you want to discourage that? What sense does it make to punish the guy who is trying to raid above his power level?

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I don’t know anyone who thinks mono color teams are an issue. This is a non-topic and is just taking up forum space. It’s silly.

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The title of this thread does also indicate players are welcome to share reasons ‘‘WHY NOT TO’’ prevent (Edit: changed it into ‘‘balance out’’ as it doesn’t have to be prevented) mono colored teams.

I would like to hear more thorough arguments against this, because I could possibly come up with scenarios where the elite doesn’t get more elite in all aspects and f2p/c2p players actually benefit from this. I will try to show this a bit later in this post. I’m of course open to change my mind and have different thoughts about this subject. This however will more likely happen with real arguments instead of simply calling the idea horrible, where as multiple people (even before this thread openend) already liked and thought about the idea.

Let’s start first with stating that no one has said that mono color teams are an issue in general. The reason behind this ‘‘idea’’ is the fact that no other tanks, except Guinevere and maybe a few others (but also debatable in this context) stand out due to the possibility to create mono color teams. Limiting the color stacking possibility (especially in raids/war) will take the game into another direction, which does not necessarily have to be worse (or better). As you can see I am just thinking about the pros and cons and not deciding wether I am in favor of or against this idea.


Any penalty or limitation for color stacking will make it less appealing to do so, unless the penalty comes with a great advantage also.

Let’s assume that Elite players have a very in-depth bench of heroes to choose from. They have to possibility to go mono color in any situation and take advantage of the huge increasement of tile damage. This is not a bad thing, but it takes away the intention of tanking-heroes if the board is good, decent or workable. In most of the times, the board is workable at least. I also see that players who have quite the powerful heroes in their defense teams already, will survive attacks more often than players who do not have these heroes (Guin, Grave etc.). This does seem to favor P2W at first.

However, the Elite to sub-category of C2P/F2P players probably don’t have such an in-depth bench of heroes. They most likely struggle more to create mono color teams compared to the Elite and simply have less diverse heroes to choose from. Adding a limit to using multiple heroes of the same color could therefore create more balance in raid attacks for all players, because it give the actual Elite players the same attacking terms as C2P/F2P players. Instead of relying on the huge damage output of mono color teams or heavy stacking, you will have to adjust your strategy of working the board, which hero’s mana to fill first, what heroes to attack first etc.

  • It could bring more balance to attacks | Not necessarily a bad thing

  • It could add more strategy | Not necessarily a bad thing

  • It could favor the defenders who are heavily stacked with strong heroes, usually the “P2W” type | Probably a bad thing


This is a situation we are currently used to. Adding any kind of limition or penalty will probably lower the ‘‘raid above you power level’’ - wall. We will still be able to do this, but we will hit the wall probably a little bit earlier.

  • This has a major downside. As I already think it favors the defenders with stronger heroes, hitting the wall of ‘‘raiding above your power level’’ sooner makes it quite harder for other players to reach the top 100, 10 or number 1 spot.

  • The positive side is that we will see less complaints and outrage on this forum about players wondering how ‘‘lower TP players’’ beat their defense. :laughing:

  • Depending on the way things get implemented (just assuming it could for the sake of this discussion), it also doesn’t necessarily have to be a punishment. It could be a minor negative effect, which simply makes you think twice before you make some moves. That doesn’t have to discourage them as it simply adds more tactical decisions to raiding and wars.


Take Aegir for example. It could be Vivica also. 90% of the community seems to dislike Aegir a lot, because his special attacks don’t make sense. Especially not for the hero he was designed to be.

But what if we add another ability to his special skill, which could be something like:

  • All allies reflect 50% Nature damage to all nature enemies.

This percentage can be adjusted, probably should be, in order to be more realistic. It does however make you think twice about what heroes you bring, when to attack with what color tiles and doesn’t necessarily mean you will punish the color stacking player.

If you still think it does, and maybe it does, I don’t know, then we can adjust the new (:wink:) ability of Aegir into:

  • All allies reflect 50% Nature damage to all nature enemies and regenerate a small amount of mana for each nature tile that hits the caster.

Just idea’s, insights and thoughts. Don’t kill the messenger, but convince us into thinking differently. It’s just a discussion, not a proposal.

Do you think that monochrome offense technique is an issue ? Why ?

First of all, monochrome is a high risk technique if #1 you get an unfavorable board and #2 you’re not experienced enough to manage a board to your benefit. Mono teams, other than give you faster wins they are not proven to give you any higher success rate over other element configurations. At least not to my knowledge.

Mono is not broken and is not going anywhere as it is deeply rooted in the mechanics of the game. It’s the reason tile damage compounds the more heroes of the same color you use and the reason we have heroes with element buffs.

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I know this will sound a bit odd when describing a game that is basically “RNG: The Game”, but running a mono team basically turns any raid into a binary “you win” or “you lose” that solely depends on luck with tiles. If you get even a few matches in the stacked color, you win. If you don’t, you lose. There’s no real strategies or synergies or play styles to worry about when you can defeat any defense by just stacking 5 against the tank and getting lucky with tiles. Heck, I made it briefly to the top 100 the other night with mostly 4* heroes just by stacking.

The solution doesn’t necessarily have to eliminate heavy color stacking, but I’d at least like to see some return of strategy to raid offense and defense.

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I agree that having enough favorable tiles on a mono raid is a guaranteed win. Easiest when those tiles are part of the opening board, but when they are not, that’s the part that still requires some strategy, nothing is guaranteed at this point. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you have to work for them. That’s another reason I enjoy mono, because it does offer a bit of everything, fast wins, big fat losses and the occasional “bad” opening board that you may or may not be able to turn around. I guess what I’m saying is that imo color stacking seems to be well balanced, most of the times.

I will say tho, there are those times when it feels like the boards are out to screw you the moment you mono raid, those days are not good days, lol…

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This strikes me as a solution in search of a problem.

The reason monochrome teams are popular has to do with the power of the most popular tanks. Hamstringing attacking teams will effectively make the most powerful tanks even more difficult to beat.

Monochrome is already a high-risk, high-reward strategy. It is far more dependent on the vagaries of the board than a 2-2-1 or 3-1-1 stack. That is sufficient counter for the increase in damage from stacking

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Mono team is less risky, albeit more costly and a less sustainable proposition, when playing with access to battle items.

Titan hits, burn pots. Events, burn pots. Raiding and wars, pray for tiles.

We accept that we don’t get battle items in raids and wars (wars the defense even get a boost), perhaps then we can accept some other limitations during other scenarios?

Just saying.

What if SGG would introduce a hero-color usage limitation?

“ALL players can use no more than 3 heroes of the same color in their team(s).”

This could be for any game feature or for any particular feauture.

What are the pros and cons?

I can imagine certain heroes become more powerful in defense teams, also as a tank. Strategy might become a more important part of the fight, also to take down a tank. Certain heroes will no longer be used by some players with a big hero bench.

Probably better discussed in another thread, which can be done.

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Better yet, degrade the tile damage and mana gain from multiples of the same colour.

1st is 100%, 2nd is 75%, 3rd is 50%, 4th is 25%, 5th is 0%.

Simples.

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Someone else has suggested that before and I’m surprised it didnt get more attention

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A considerable option, but that doesn’t take away the massive increase of tile damage. 0% for a mono color team will make them think more than twice though, haha.

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I’d separate out this conversation into:

  • Teams vs. titans
  • Teams in raids and wars
  • Teams in events and quests

Honestly I don’t see any need to change how titan teams are composed. I am confident that 13* and, eventually, 14* will be reintroduced as new changes come into the game that give players the tools to take these monsters down.

My biggest beef with mono-stacking is in the second category, wars and raids.

Events? I think there are better ideas for making events more about skill and less about lucky boards, such as drawing out the battles to four minion waves, rather than two.

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