Why Thoth-Amun Needs a Buff

…or that Petri (the community manager) doesn’t have as deep an understanding of the mechanics. He’s off on holiday or I’d ask him.


Okay, thanks… I’ll wait on that for sure then.

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@Kerridoc I always enjoy going back in time with the game. This period brings back a lot of memories. I specifically recall understanding what was being offered to me through the game at the time and how it molded my perception of the future opportunity I had as a daily player with E&P. It will be very clear imo that Thoth has needed a Buff since release (well not long after getting him running at about 3/40 likely in the end of Jan 2018).

The most pivotal point in my gaming life was when I saw Thoth for the 1st time. Sends shivers down my spine because I nearly went into shock! I was well on my way to having Ares at a point of retiring BoldTusk who I had only had in tank for position for a short period. Until Ares BoldTusk was the most sought-after character in the game, the Ultimate Tank and a force that held the glue that surrounded him together. The goal of the game was a RAINBOW team. I was still in a 2/1/1/1 a solid EPIC team being replaced by HOTM’s.

Much shocked me with the release of Thoth-Amun.

  1. I had no idea he was coming nor why he would be.

  2. I literally had just laid down to rest for the first time in 5 months of chasing Hel, Athena, Ares, Musashi and Alberich! Falling short in obtaining the complete set of the one-of-a-kind never to be released again: ULTIMATELY ENGINEERED RAINBOW team! Alberich’s availability period especially those last 2 days stacked an amount of pressure on me and stress that I might not get him that was crazy! I failed. I went 4 for 5 and did everything possible that I could back then to seal the deal, it just wasn’t in the cards for me. My efforts however permanently tied me to the game as a financial investment.

  3. Like you DOC I was also lacking an element, I was always lacking an elemental to achieve my goal. My nemesis was NATURE going into Legendary player status. I had faith in Caedmon and it turned out he would carry me well into Legendary status (3 HOTM were maxed for some time before he was replaced, and Athena took me 6 months to obtain her materials however the others came quick.). Caedmons FAST hit hard enemy de-buffing skills (especially against Ares that others got to full before I could) were really impressive. Caedmon is the most dependable hero I’ve ever owned. He just wasn’t capable of playing at the level needed in the space I began to occupy n the game (well for a long time now).

  4. One might wonder what is it with you and Thoth? I was beside myself coming off the 5 month ride I had been on. I had no idea why he even existed, I didn’t know that the HOTM was going to be extended beyond the RAINBOW team offering, I didn’t know why it would be, just how I was thinking at the time.

So I’ll break away from the bullets now. I can’t explain how perplexed I was honestly seeing Thoth. He was cool looking though and a Dark character. Not knowing how long I’d be out of the grasp of a RAINBOW team my mind switched to dual element Legends and Thoth had something very special – the ability to summon an undead minion to fight with us! His card was like Hel’s in stats, yet he was FAST. Appeared would cause more damage as well.

Thoth was my 2nd maxed Dark (Hel my first). Just the mere idea of a minion was so cool - that he could spawn another life and it would fight for me! I recall he brought minions into E&P if memory serves me correctly. Back then I couldn’t fathom needing another Hel (though I held on to one of the extras I purchased through summoning). I went to work on Thoth quick because I was so excited after the shock wore off!

Well… my NATURE Achilles heel would continue for a long time. My ‘luck’ would end with Perseus in regard to HOTM summoning. I went on a 6/7 streak only missing Alby (who made clear quickly outside of Ares in general gameplay a huge problem for many yet Alby would cause me more problems than any Hero ever till him).

I went on a losing summoning streak that I didn’t know would ever end. I failed to obtain:

  • Natalya
  • Zeline (game changer)
  • Delialah (game changer until Gravemaker)
  • Aeron (very promising for awhile than kind of slipped out of the picture)
  • Alasie (had no idea what she would become capable of doing – game changer)
    #Edit!!! Good news I got Alasie last day#
  • Gravemaker (took the game to a whole different level and no one has truly challenged with any lasting success since early August 2018)

Having my summoning luck turn around for a month by picking up Gregorian after that half of a year dry spell in the later stages of the ELEMENT LINK intro phase I got my hopes up as it was clear Elkanen wasn’t capable of getting me anywhere close to where I wanted to be. Little did I know that Greg at least in my team of the 1st 4 Legend HOTM though could hold cups better that’s all he did for me.

Thoth was my first introduction to paying for a crappy HOTM and Elkanen set my hopes low with the regular Legends in our deck. Greg looked amazingly promising and I was hearing great things in the beginning… I heard them and didn’t experience them. Greg basically destroyed hope lol and I felt it wasn’t just NATURE an elemental against me it was MOTHER NATURE herself! Mother? Did I pick a flower wrong when I was younger? Maybe it was setting stuff on fire… lol probably the later.

Thoth was my biggest disappointment, he is the weakest implementation of minions in the game as far as I’m concerned so the hope around the ‘extra’ fighter, I honestly can’t think of a single fight I was like – dang glad I had that minion!

Oddly its often the ‘CREATOR’ or ‘DELIVERER’ of a new technology or skill that maintains the KEY to its power – usually coming full circle to reward them in some way, a benefit of some kind. No, I think every minion maker since Thoth is better.

The Elkanen and Thoth mistakes would keep me crippled for some time. The difference between them however is cost and Thoth was much more expensive than Elkanen. Elk however has never been forgotten. He recently got his 3rd BUFF by the developers in a positive direction. I wouldn’t consider him ‘balanced’ still.

So much time has passed since. RAINBOW teams lol. Not even the objective anymore. Thoth in the big picture – he’s truly crap. Yeah go stack him or whatever and tell me he has value. Put him in a Dark HOTM lineup and let all of us have an endless opportunity to pic from the Darks – given the opportunity to choose just 1, and lets see how many choose Thoth… NONE. He is arguably the worst HOTM period. Devs this is one you have overlooked for a long time! You gave Elk 3 swings and he basically struck out (though I appreciate your attempts and I will vouch for you - Elkanen, he is the best he has ever been). How about giving the Dark Mother of Minion the bat now?

p.s. if your wondering about my RAINBOW goal. I did achieve it. It took a ton of study and data collection. I identified who I had to obtain to achieve it. I worked hard toward it. I put a lot of time and money into it. I was able to enjoy it for a while. Unfortunately, I see it coming to an end already, which is a bummer. There is always going to be bigger, better, faster and more far reaching skillsets. I’m hoping to find a solution within my exiting inventory to address it.

Take care! And best success E&PEEPS!


@Rigs @Wormwood @MrsBCW @_John_Doe @YoMomma @Garanwyn @Rook @Julia @Alusia


@King_Kyree77 I don’t know why I left that out, Thoth can take some good hits. So can Elk in my response. Looking at those 2 since their release and standing on their own merit all alone (and Elk being ‘balanced’ 3x to Thoth’s 0x) I’m taking Elkanen with me not Thoth. And of the 5 cards above I choose all of them before Thoth. Just my 2c. Thanks for your post!


I miss the tabbards already… I’m sorry Sartana… I guess I’ll just wait to see if he gets a buff this century… I should have went with Sartana… Thoth Amun has my soul now, I’ll never get it back this century lol


I heard that in July there will be a new HOTM, not only a mixture between Sartana & Thoth but an upgraded version of both, is that true?

If so, it will make Thoth really obsolete.

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Basically. I compared Seshat (July HOTM current name) to Thoth-Amun in my initial beta feedback, and basically said the same thing — that it felt like a new generation version that made Thoth look pretty dull.


my opinion for Toth

  • Damage deal to single Target 260%
  • change Mana to VeryFast
  • no changes on minion

Is it true that Seshat hit as hard as Sartana and her minions can duplicate themselves?

That might be understatement…:sweat_smile:

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That’s unusually low for a sniper.

  • Kage – Very Fast – 450%/225% + dispel
  • Poseidon – Fast – 450% + resistance
  • Alasie – Fast – 462% + mana debuff
  • Joon – Fast – 468% + Blind
  • Sartana – Fast – 452% + DoT
  • Marjana – Fast – 458% + DoT
  • Lianna – Fast – 512%
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no , Thoth is not sniper , Thoth is distruptor in lane to keep his minion as many as possible , thats why he need to be VeryFast mana , remember that his minion do quite high damage than other minion , he need to be unique as his current but just more useable.


Very close, but no DoT. But I think the other skill and stat differences more than make up for that.

Yes, at least in the initial version.

This isn’t the first time that self-replicating Minions have entered beta, but they’ve been killed before. Hard to say whether they’ll make it into a live version this time.


Seshat is a sniper. As current state, Seshat is better distruptor even if she is not very fast as her minions can replicate themselves…

Ok, but you’re effectively arguing for reducing his Total Damage Output.

A modest increase in percentage while dropping from 3 targets to 1 is not an improvement.

Going from Fast to Very Fast would make some difference to his ability to summon Minions faster, but if you further reduce his Damage Output then he’s just a meat shield. And that’s basically the main complaint about him in his current state.

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yeah that what i said , veryfast = more minion = more atk (109x3) + more def (272x3)

it will make him as Sniper by Minion as well a Semi-Tank by Minion

Maybe just change the mana speed to very fast and left the others unchanged?

That is Seshat… while her speed is only fast, her minion can replicate… and she hit far harder… what is Guardian Jackal damage?

Sheshan is too earlier to judge , i am sure they will do change later

change to Veryfast but with splash damage is to op for sure. we should make Thoth better than current not to overpowered him

At least not as OP as Gravemaker :sweat_smile:

I think you’re overestimating the damage Thoth’s Minions can do.

A non-crit hit is in the ballpark of 11 HP on a maxed 5*. I managed to capture a 26 HP crit hit just now in testing…still not a ton of damage.

Again, meat shield. He already has fairly tanky stats, and the Minions add HP. But if all he does is sit and take damage, he won’t be an effective tank. An attacker can just launch tiles at him with almost no repercussion in that scenario.

He needs increased Damage Output, or a dangerous secondary effect.


Would it be OP if Thoth summon minions for nearby allies?

Perhaps other than slightly increase his special damage, they can give the minion ability to regenerate Thoth’s hp and mana.

Seshat elemental link also add mana regeneration buff… Her minion also hit slightly harder due to her attack stat.

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