As someone with a +20 Killhare and truly does enjoy using her, I am curious why everyone is so gung ho over her and not Guardian Kong? It seems like Kong rarely ever gets talked about or seen in competitive teams while Killhare is almost always featured.
Killhare +20 does 300% damage to all with a 845 attack stat at average speed. That is 2,535 base damage at average speed with an undispellable defense down ailment for the entire team except her.
Kong +20 does 250% damage to all with a 854 attack stat at average speed. That’s 2,135 base damage. Though Kong also gives your entire team near immunity to blue tiles with a huge blue defense up AND he cleanses the entire team AND he doesn’t have the hinderance of an undispellable defense down for your team.
The difference in damage is 400 points in total. Spread among all the enemies, that is telling us that all Killhare does is give about 80 points of extra damage to each enemy more than Kong does (with updated stats it’s 57.5)
Is 57.5 points of extra damage to each enemy an equal trade off to:
+94% defense against blue for 4 turns to all allies
an entire team cleanse
not hindering your entire team with a permanent defense down?
As someone who does love their Killhare, I feel like I would rather have a Kong over her any day. Why is it that Killhare gets all the love and Kong is barely ever talked about?
They both have the same speed, Kong has a higher attack stat, does not have a negative ability, gives a huge blue defense up, CLEANSES, and still has a powerful hit. What gives?!
EDIT: apparently Kong at +20 can get to 899, not 854. You can see the updated math in another comment. It’s only about a 57.5 damage boost to each enemy now, not 80.
Agree with your points. I’m using Guardian Kong but only problem with G.Kong is his defence is very low. He is good for offence team but most player won’t choose him for defence Because of his low defence.
I have both at +20. 200 points in defense is a huge difference. Also the fighter’s revive skill is fantastic compared to the barbarian’s weak bleed skill.
I have both of them emblemmed. Here are my thoughts:
300% vs 250% is quite significant if we are talking about aoe heroes; Killhare is a finisher, great to be used on wings. Guardian Kong is more of a supporting damage; he hits hard but usually requires someone to finish after him; not a good on wing, as he won’t be as murderous as Killhare being ‘last man standing’
Killhare’s class is much better and fits her role as a finisher, she won’t go down easily
Kong’s lack of defense is really noticeable, he dies like a fly - offensively and defensively; Killhare is much better with that; being average, she has much better chance to charge before dying than Kong
there are so many good reds to be used on defense, which are just better than Kong; Killhare competitors are probably more on par with her (Jabberwock, Seshat, Onyx)
Actually, I didn’t know Kong could get to 899, my friend must not have gone the full attack route. That makes the difference in damage even less.
250 at 899 is 2247.5 damage. So a difference between the two now is now 287.5 damage or 57.5 more damage for each enemy. So is 57.5 more damage for each enemy a valuable trade off for blue defense, cleanse, and no permanent defense down hinderance?
That 50% difference only adds up to 57.5 damage more to each enemy. That’s not that significant. That’s less than one turn of Vela’s weak ■■■ DoT.
I agree that fighter is better than barbarian.
The only point I really see as a defining negative about Kong is his low defense. But he does make up for it with higher attack and higher HP than Killhare. Killhare is a finisher, but her damage output is only midly better than Kongs. While Killhare leaves her entire team weak after her hit, Kong does the exact opposite and enforces his team with a huge blue defensive buff and a cleanse.
These are the hits of my Killhare vs my Kong on same troop (mana lvl 5). Note Killhare is only on 19 talent so she is missing that last 29 attack stat bonus. This is average 70 dmg difference (350 in total), potentially up to 80+ with that last node I skip. It’s still 20% more damage dealt.
Those are different enemy heroes with different defensive stats. I think it’s easier to go by base damage, which is the math I have already shown. Killhare only does about 57.5 points of damage more to each hero
Look, I am not saying Kong is a bad hero - quite opposite, I enjoy him (emblemmed him for a reason), just outlined why you don’t see him as much on the defenses.
Kong is just not a good defense hero because his defense stat is low. On offense he is just as good if not superior to Killhare, however Killhare gets the love until costume Marj debuts. Pather is a 5* but the only elem down red was falcon who was kinda of weak also. Once Costume Marj replaces him, then Kong will truly shine and get even more love
I love my Kong I use him both in attack and defense and he is marvelous.
In defense he is a bit squishy though but I don’t have better AoE choices and I really believe that AoE hitters are the most efficient heroes in defense. Despite its low defense he does its job very well at least for war defense. I think it’s because people are not use to face him hence they don’t really know how devastating he is.
Killhare is off course devastating but she has a major downside. This means in fact that it’s very risky to place her in the flank position cause if the opponent can survive her hit it is most likely they will win the game. To me she is not good on the wing position like most people use her. She fires too late in this position to be a threat cause the game is already decided by then. The best combo would be to have her flanked to a JF tank with Sir Roostley on the other flank.
In offense, well kong is really good for its cleanse. It’s tile damages is amazing and I don’t really struggle to keep him alive. He is best use paired with Wilbur and anzogh although it requires to have the necessary mana troops to have all of them in 9 tiles.
I don’t have killhare so I can’t judge her offensively but I think that if paired with Panther and/or cTibertus +20 the game will probably be over. If you have vanda/grazul or JF that can also be an optiom to avoid the def down but it’s not easy to manage different color and mana generation.
First off, I do think Kong is underrated. Mostly because he was awful before his buff last year. He’s far better now and a real threat, but he’s still nowhere close to Killhare.
An attack difference of 50 and health of under 70 doesn’t even come close to making up for 200 points of defense. The general rule is 1 attack = 1 defense = 2 health. So he’s short 115 attack/defense or 230 health.
Killhare’s defense down is less important than many who don’t use/face her think just because after she fires there’s often not enough of an opposing team to take advantage of it.
Unfortunately, by the same token, the blue defense up from Kong is less important. Cleanse still matters though.
It’s really hard to compare heroes in isolation unless you plan to use them alone. The synergy between heroes is most important. For instance, I pair Killhare with JF on offense and get the same ice defense up as Kong but also +46 defense since JF swaps Killhare’s defense down while adding Dot. Kong is great on offense but an elite defense never includes squishy heroes.
Yeah and Kong can be paired with Wilbur? There are good combos for both. There are also very few heroes to pair with Killhare that will help with her hindering ability while Kong has a larger selection to choose from. Also this post didn’t exclusively say for defense. Even in offense, Kong doesn’t get talked about as much which still confuses. I haven’t really been convinced otherwise yet by the comments so far.
i think kong is a good hero on offense, i haven’t maxed him yet but that’s not cause he’s a bad hero, it’s just cause other options have made more sense thus far.
kong would have been maxed already though if i didn’t have multiple zimkithas for sure. the mass damage + cleanse in 9 tiles would be super appealing
I use Kong on my mono red raid team. I’ve got Garnet to help protect him quickly (formerly Grazul held this spot) and Gravemaker to start whittling down heroes. Puss in Boots and Queen of Hearts give added protection via heal over time and taunt, along with attack up to make Kong even better. For a sniper-less offense, this team has a remarkably high win percentage.
Killhare better in defence, Kong better for attack.
Since other people see only defence, that’s where the general consensus an hero better in defence is overall better of the other.
Stats and class are clearly on Killhare side though, but that cleanse buff is gold.
