Why I am not spending more money in this game and how to win me back

At least it would be something. Or a start. Perhaps a tweak could be guaranteed 4* and higher chance for 5* (but I mean high… not that 2% shennanigan)

Thanks for the feedback!

1 Like

Ok, it’s twofold, as someone else said, this would encourage players to increase their spending.

I am not asking for free or cheap stuff, I am asking for a guarantee. If I go to a store (like you said) and take $100 with me, I will get $100 worth of groceries. No less. No more. Not a “chance to get milk… but maybe you don’t”, if I buy milk, I get milk.

Now, the price is up to the devs, if the “milk” costs me all the $100 great, but I will know I will get it

1 Like

Thanks! I think so far you’re the only one who sees the whole pucture

1st thanks for giving a positive critic instead of… well… the other posts.

Yes, indeed “whales” could abuse this system, but there could be balancing. That’s why I didn’t include any suggestions (people tend to focus on those, instead of the main post)

But, for the sake of explaining, if SG deciedes “HOTM costs $1000 and you 100% get it”, then it will be in line with my topic. I would not spend 1k for a hero, but at least the gambling/gacha element would have a bypass. The rest is balance.

The main goal is to close a bit if the gap between p2w and f2p/casual spenders

Thanks!

My grocery store analogy could have been better, you’re right, if you spend $100 on groceries you get $100 in groceries (I buy generic brands so maybe I will get $105). I should have used a casino analogy. You put $10 into a slot machine, you might hit the jackpot (the 5 star you were looking for), you might hit the bars (and get Thorne), or you might get the cherry (4 star), or you might get nothing (but at lease you get a 3 star in this game). The casinos won’t guarantee something. hmmm, but casinos do give comps to high rollers. Maybe SG can give big spenders some free drinks (flasks).

The “comps” are the ascension chests that you get for doing ten Atlantis pulls.

While I seriously doubt that we will se guaranteed 5* ever, it would be nice to see the complete randomness softened in some way. I’ve suggested shards for both heroes and rare mats, which would create a sense of progression towards a goal.

5 Likes

ahhh yes, that’s right, guaranteed ascension mats with those chest. good point.

SG got to greedy when they put S1 heroes in the Atlantis summons then asked for more gems. I stopped buying then.
Remove S1 3* FROM ATLANTIS & EVENT SUMMONS & smaller buyers may return to purchasing.

5 Likes

This game’s business plan is to frustrate players into spending more for the small chance of getting a decent hero. They’ll never change this mechanic to give what most of us would feel is a fair return.

They don’t understand that most of us are “collectors” and if we felt we were getting a fairer return we would spend more. I know the months that I’ve pulled a decent hero I’ve spent more but after a run of getting crap I back off.

What could work is that every player’s first 10x pull each month gives a guaranteed 5* hero. This would not break the game’s mechanics and would not allow people to hoover up all the 5* heroes but would give something small back to people. Or to change the desperately small odds of pulling 5*'s which now that they’ve published them they’ll never change.

Also I don’t know why Small Giant have so many defenders on here. Every poster who suggests a tweak to the game for the benefit of players gets ridiculed by certain people.

2 Likes

I think you may be mistaking explaining why things are the way they are for defending SGG. I would love to have better odds on draws, S2 heroes in TC20, and no S1 heroes (or at the very least no S1 3*) in Atlantis. But I understand why SGG does what they do.

ETA: what I do tend to argue pretty strongly against is ideas that I think will tilt the game even more heavily in favor of big spenders.

2 Likes

Me and the people who suggest tweaks aren’t thick. Its precisely because we understand how the game works that we suggest something different.
Explaining things back to us that we already know is very annoying and is de facto defending the staus quo.
A small tweak like mine would help the small spenders. One and only one guaranteed 5* a month if you spend enough for a 10x pull helps the cheap to play. You may only get Thorne or a 2nd Elkanen or you may get Joon or Sartana but you get something.

3 Likes

I’m not clear that people do understand the effects of what they’re proposing.

For instance, suppose you used your guaranteed 10-pull on the seasonal gate. There are 19 5* heroes on offer including the HOTM, 16 of whom you can get for free from TC20. This moves your chance at Mother North to 2.6% from 0.33%. This has the effect of shaving a full 15 pulls off of the expected number required to get Mother North (it drops to 285 pulls from 300).

On the HOTM, you only shave one pull off of the average. So that’s closer to a wash (but still costs SGG money from the P2W).

Now, you don’t benefit the average C2P player much. 7.8% of them will hit the jackpot and get Santa or MN or Evelyn. The rest of them will get something they could have pulled for free from TC20. But you will save every P2W player an average of $40 on Mother North and the HOTM.

So, would you be willing to pay $40 for this guaranteed 10-pull, to offset the lost revenue from P2W players?

1 Like

This game lacks failstack mechanics, like many heavily RNG-oriented games do, like Black Desert Online.

■■■■■■■■■■■■, for those who aren’t familiar with, is the improvement of your chances of succeeding each time you fails. So, let’s say, if your chance of getting a 5* improves 0,1% each pull, it’s still in the luck territory but at least you know that if you failed enough something will eventually come up.

4 Likes

I doubt that a solution concerning ‘‘guaranteed hero summons’’ will tighten this gap.

The assumptions about F2P players starting to spend money is not entirely in line with the reality. I believe it is safer to say that C2P/P2W players, who have shifted towards a F2P mentality, will more likely start spending money again. This would increase the amount of players who are C2P/P2W.

The gap between the “fewer” remaining F2P players and everyone else will become bigger than it currently is. Why? Because more players will have better chances, if not guaranteed options, to obtain random or specific desired heroes.

Despite the fact these players will be satisfied thanks to (possibly) obtaining guaranteed better heroes, the actual gap between F2P - C2P/P2W will get bigger. The game then also just shifts more towards a P2W direction, instead of P2Gamble&MaybeWinUnlessISpendTons. Exactly this shift has received so so so so many complaints already.

@Kerridoc somewhere mentioned a solution based on collectables, which will give everyone guaranteed heroes once they have a specific number of said collectables. This might be a solution to avoid widening the gap and still give you a feeling of progression.


The Gatcha/RNG/Gambling system works fine for SGG. I don’t see any reason for them to change this. The complaints regarding this system can be solved in many different ways, where rewarding C2P or P2W players for spending their money does not necessarily have to be the best way for the entire community.

On the other hand I also understand that a certain value for your spent money is a desired change. I am C2P and always feel a little uneasy to spend money on sumonning heroes. This uneasy feeling would definitely be taken away if I would receive some kind of reward for spending money. Not an increased reward as a result of the money I spent, but a valuable reward for the act of spending my money.

This has already been achieved in a way by adding the Ascension Materials reward chest in the Atlantis Summon portal. But why only there? And perhaps it could be something else for each type of summon.

1 Like

Thanks for the shout-out, Tom. Here’s the link to that “shards” idea.

2 Likes

I’m not clear that people do understand the effects of what they’re proposing

Thanks for such a detailed post. While I haven’t considered all possible outcomes, I have NOT included any examples or variations of what “guarantee” would mean or how it could be achieved.

The “heart” of the post, is “give us something instead of the chance of something”

How? Up to the devs. I loved your post, your math is accurate and awesome! However it is just “a” way to guarantee a pull.

Any other solution would be a step forward for me, even ridicule ones, for the sake of exaples and respect out of the time you took to do the math, I will elabotate a bit. But remember, these are purelu fictional examples.

  1. Set a direct buy on HOTM for $200
  2. Event Heroes: L = $100, E = $75, R = $10

That is ONE method, and one example of how to guarantee stuff (ie. Discard the gamble system)

Let’s suppose SG likes this… who will set the price? They will. So, maybe a HOTM will cost $500, or $1000, or $1… who knows?

Another EXAMPLE to not discard the gamble system:

  1. A 10x guarantees at least one of the “Free TC20” 5*, all other odds remain, this gives you something valuable, and completely solves the issue on your example

Shards, fragments, tokens, direct purchases, those are all viable ways to “solve” the issue.

Just remember, the core idea is “guarantee I won’t go empty handed” (you know, besides having 3* and maybe 4*, since one could argue that you always get something in return… let’s not pull straws…)

And again, AWESOME post. Felt almost like a riddle, I love math and odds and statistics, so you also gave me a fun time

I doubt that a solution concerning ‘‘guaranteed hero summons’’ will tighten this gap

You are right to an extent. It all depends on the balance.

A guarateed 5* from a 10x pull would mean P2W and C2P (btw, I asume that meas Casual spenders?) Would get a lot of 5* fast.

But it would also give F2P a shot. I repeat, there are no suggestions in this post, for people tend to focus on them and pull straws, but again, let’s think a way.

  1. Only the 1st 10x pull of the month gives you a Guaranteed 5* (example)

It’s all in the balancing. P2W will and SHOULD have an advantage over C2P, and C2P will and SHOULD have an advantage over F2P

Ideally, thay advantage should only be TIME. A great example of this is the VIP pass. A VIP player will max his base faster than a nom VIP, that is a good, healthy, monetization system.

Powercreep, gamble/gacha, and direct absolute P2W, is unhealthy (for the player base, ofc, as a monetization system is a goldmine and I said so in the OP)

So… what would be a good balance? I have ideas, of course, but I lack information. What is the revenue of this system? Would a change in the system affect the company for the better or for the worse? Do they care ONLY about money or are they willing to sacrifice a margin to keep the playerbase happy? Who knows… maybe they don’t care. Maybe they do…

Either way… I lost track… oh yeah, the gap.

Balance. Just that. There should be a way to improve F2P and C2P experience whilst keeping P2W happy

Thanks!

Also I don’t know why Small Giant have so many defenders on here. Every poster who suggests a tweak to the game for the benefit of players gets ridiculed by certain people

I really gotta learn how to quote from my phone… I applogize that my thread is looking so messed up, I will edit as soon as I figure that out.

I also don’t understand that, my friend. I wouldn’t call them SG defenders… just toxic people. They have resigned themselves to things “the way they are”. I try to ignore them, I do not always succeed.

I just will keep fighting, and trying to make the game (and IRL, the world) a better experience.

Edit: Yeah!!! I did it! Will start editing backwards, but it will take time

I want guaranteed heroes and I want them now or I will never spend another dime. If you give me everything I ask for then I will spend more money again, I’ll pay you on Tuesday for a 5 star hero today. I want my heroes to poop out ascension mats for other heroes. and why can’t my Richard and Sonya have a 4.5 star baby that will grow up and help me fight wars?

I think there should be a rule that you have to play this game for a year before you can ask for things. “I’ve been playing this game for 2 months and I can’t win events, and I can’t get into the top 100, I need free stuff and then I know for sure I can win this game.”

My alliance mate has never spent. He only has one hotm from saved up gem pulls and only one event hero from an event token pull. But he has several maxed 5 star heroes. How? Because he has been playing for a year and a half, he got his TC20s and played patiently. You all feel you should just jump in and get guaranteed free stuff and be where he is now? You really think that is fair?

1 Like

I’m sorry but your reply is exactly the type of example that I mean. You sound like a Small Giant staffer worried about their revenue. You talk about a $40 drop in revenue for them because you say it reduces the pulls needed from 300 to 285? Do you think everybody is paying $900 a month to try to get one hero? Half my alliance don’t even do one 10x pull a month because of the poor return.
I’m sorry but let’s end this conversation because your last reply has no relevance to the normal everyday player.