Why FTP and Paying gamers should be friends [A neutral point of view]

The return is a cool balance of anger & fun, disappointment & satisfaction, bad luck & winning streaks.

Virtual goods, psychological return.

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I accept that many on here define ‘return’ intangibly

Many like me are pretty tangible about it, I don’t want to overspend on something that is likely to give me little tangible return eg heroes.

If I did convert to a spender this would be foremost in my mind. It’s a different way of thinking I guess.

Supporting the devs and community and all the game has to offer is one thing, but overspending with little yield is another. :man_shrugging:t2:

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As a p2w, I spent a small fortune chasing the likes of Joon, Poseidon, Ariel and Kage but never get them.
Few months after turning c2p, Sartana, Marjana, Lianna, Magni, Leonidas, Vivica, Obakan and co just pouring out of my two TC20s.

The point is p2w may get you dearer but does not always guarantee a success.
Best part was since turning c2p, I am enjoying the game more than ever!

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This game is an entertainment. It is not an investment. There is no ROI. You play to enjoy yourself. If you spend, it is like going to the movies. You are paying for the enjoyment. If you spend and don’t enjoy what you get (as in how the game plays) then you really need to find another form of entertainment.

Sure, I complain. I am not overly impressed with the latest additions to the game because for me personally they add no entertainment value. And that is important to me. I do enjoy playing the game overall (except when I need just ONE MORE MATCH 3 TO WIN AND DON’T GET IT! ARRRGH), which is why I still am some 21 months later. I have made a few donations in the last year or so to SGG so I’m not completely f2p. But I did it in the full knowledge that I had no expectation of getting anything for it.

And yes, like it or not the extreme randomness is in fact what keeps the playing field more level than it could be.

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18 months on game 2 months FTP, rest of the time cheap to play. Been with same members of alliance for 15 months minus the ones we lost during a split. I have 3 5’s of each color capped, we are steady at 10 11 star titans, back up to 28 people so hopefully we can get to a 12 finally :). Have a few fives at 3 of 70 and just making sure to collect and save mats as I dont send any 5 to its last tier until I’m sending one of each color.

We work hard in my alliance but in a fun fashion making sure to host events so the couple of FTP players we have get shots at winning cards for a roll or two during events, making sure to teach the ik importance of saving gems, research before ng your roster with whatever playstyle fits that person, and making sure to get the best odds for cash spent as a group. Mats are tough when you are constantly watching them but when you kinda just let them.flownits bot so bad. My current mat level

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Then set your budget and dont go over it, every hero will be back around d at some point, no rush to get anyone.

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I’m a c2p player and have been since I started this game and have at no point has a desire to spend more then already do. If the loot boxes got taken away and I was always guaranteed what I got i would quit the game. Because chances are the prices would be ridiculous. And have the fun is not knowing if you’ll get lucky or just get a bunch of shiny new feeders. Do I think summon odds could be upped a little sure but I go into each summon knowing what my chances are. Plus it forces me to try and learn new ways to be creative with the current bench I have. I don’t have a lot of the shiny new heroes but I can still compete against some of the top players in the game in raids and win. So far the people and trying to make what I have work for me is plenty enough to keep me happy. Is there heroes that I would live to have absolutely but I don’t go above my normal spending to try and get them. And if I get nothing but feeders I’m just like men whatever and keep on grinding. Too many people focus on the bright shiny new object instead of learning and experimenting with what they have. You can be surprised by what you can be capable of with the right combination and a good board.

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I’m almost positive that’s the most I’ve ever seen you write in a single post @Rigs, but well done. All very valid.

The P2W, C2P, F2P all need each other to make this game work. Otherwise the F2P walk away further discouraging the C2P which in turn would probably see the P2W slowly fade away to another game.

Giving guarantees of hero’s isn’t the answer, because the summons is part of the magic. Sure there’s normally more disappointment than not but using your last EHT during AR and walking away with Hel or Alby is a big part of this game.

Like Rigs, I’d also like to have GM, but I don’t. So what? I still play and enjoy myself. I wanted the LotL and BK, NOPE, Merlin and Lancelot. Sure I was disappointed but I’ll eventually level both Of the hero’s I did get up and I’ll have another chance for the hero’s I did want when they come around again.

SG doesn’t want to lose any of its players but it’s walking a fine line trying to keep everyone happy. Do I think they really screwed up with the the Alchemy Lab, YUP, and I think they will realize that quite soon as well. But they have also added things that make this game fun, especially the Atlantis Rising farming…is there ANYONE that doesn’t look forward to THAT?

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Really interesting conversation and I commend many of the posts and posters for their informative discourse.

Lootbox

I share the view that, if someone is addicted to a lootbox mechanism, prohibition is not the solution. That person will find another destructive mechanism, be it substances or something else. But I also admit that this is a complex societal issue with no easy answer. For me, I limit the ways I interact with the game. I have noted multiple times in the Fighting Familiar Names thread that I cannot send or receive a video on Line; I’m not on there because I worry that I’d spend too much time in game if I were.

Related: I often have the though that a lack of understanding probability is the root of all unhappiness.

F2P Gap

I am often confused by threads decrying the gap between F2P and C2P / P2P / P2W. From my perspective, many people who post in those threads seem to presuppose the premise that the gap should not exist. I do not accept that, though I think it perfectly valid to debate how big that gap should be and at what rate it should grow.

Other Thoughts

I think I hold some opinions that differ from most posters (though are perhaps in accord with people who do NOT post about these things).

  • I made an entire thread attempting to express my thoughts about an area of the game that I think could be improved.
  • Here I lament summoning Kingston. I experience more in-game frustration from not being able to ascend my heroes than I do from summoning.
  • Miscellaneous, where I’m being facetious some of the time, but probably less than most people realize.
  • I think costumes, emblems, and even the raid tournaments were all good (though imperfect) ways to make older / weaker heroes more relevant.
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Quit encouraging the “loot box” crap discussion. Someone has a gambling problem … suggest where they go for help! But, it gets old when people on here use that avenue so they can get guaranteed mats”. Honest to crap it’s a phone game that’s fun… why change it?

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Rigs I know you have a massive team. I would bet that you are also pretty stocked with ascension items. This is why you still want the loot boxes where nothing falls on vast majority of the time. Taking nothing away from your grinding and longevity in this game. But the drops are way worse in my 1.5 years of playing, and seam worse every day.
The loot boxes NEED to be boosted a small amount, EVERYONE in the game knows that. I am NOT saying they need to go away at all.

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Well that’s the thing see, one train of thought says some people can’t help themselves.

Another says everyone can help themselves.

So which camp you are in is obviously going to change your world view of things

If you are set in one camp who am I to try and change your mind?

Most of us only change our minds when we encounter something in real life and I have no control over that obviously lol.

But putting that to one side, there’s nothing wrong with putting pressure on SG to give you better value for your buck.

In fact everyone needs to put pressure on them. If this pressure didn’t exist they can do whatever they want

I have spent a fair bit of money on the game, insofar as what I can reasonably afford. I never looked on it as gambling, as I always got exactly what I purchased…the gems. After that it is a total crap shoot as to what the gems may or may not return in the guise of heros or troops. I spent because I CHOSE to, not because I felt I HAD to.
Did it enhance my actual experience of the game? Yes and no I guess. Definitely happiness when that elusive HOTM appeared, much gnashing of teeth if it didn’t. Again though, my choice.

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Fair enough with the gamblers philosophy that some can help themselves and some can’t! So, the ones that can help themselves please do… the ones that can’t?- well obviously nothing you say on here can either!!! So, what I’m saying is could we please cap the complaints about this…

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Summons are one of the most debatable issues in this game, but as pointed, it is a free will thing. The issue will only be addressed when and if people get so discouraged by the results they stop spending.
Having said that, personally I am discouraged by the turn the game is taking. Everything seems to be screaming at me :BUY BUY BUY. A lot of useless new stuff, like alchemy lab and no content to the game. Also the enormous influx of new heroes, all slightly on the OP side sort of put me off summoning - the realization that it is almost impossible to have a top team for more than a few moments, even spending.
But what I would like to address is the “grind lootbox” those are frankly offensive. Titan chests- 5 titans to get 1 mana potion, one arrow, a couple of herbs and one silver token? War chest, hell, after an enormous investment of grind to create many teams to get risible stuff? I am not talking here only of ascension mats, but of the slap in the face that is getting minor crafts as if they were a just reward. Would it be so terrible to get major crafts instead of minor? Getting 4* crafting itens instead of herbs? Will not even get started in tournament. That was one too much and I rarely participate.

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I am a paying player and I always wanted to support FTP players. FTP players made up the bulk of the core and I want them to stay as long as possible.
That is why I am so against the power creep of newer heroes and not buffing the old classic heroes up(for free, not costume). But instead all SG did is to introduce more money spending schemes and making old heroes looking obsolete.

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Invalid argument bud! Your “ power creep” theory sounds good on paper but is not the reality. The fallacy- they make stronger heroes and the old ones become obsolete… the player loses ground and falls drastically behind if he doesn’t want to spend. The Reality- we are daily improving our teams through; leveling new tunes, emblems , troops, game play. The truth is our own personal “power level” steadily increases . You will always be ahead of people and you will always be behind some people- it s the way it is when you started and how it would be when you end. “The Fallacy” has never happened… “The reality” we all live.

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Why should f2p and p2w be friends?

  1. We’re all human players. To a big corporation like Zynga, players are simply numbers. You’re not special because you pay a thousand times more than a free player, and viceversa. You’re not part of their business just cuz you support it with your hard earned money.

  2. Despite the things we post in the forums, despite all the criticism towards the game and all the butt kissing (I read that in another thread lol), I think all of us love the game and we want SG to be a succesful company so we can play their game for a few more years.

  3. This whole f2p vs. p2w is just stupid. It reminds me of some political bs of the internet out there. I thought game forums were safe from that madness but I guess I was wrong. There aren’t two sides at war here. We’re all players.

  4. The game will never change. Devs already made that clear. So we should enjoy this game while it lasts.

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… and how much is a thousand times zero?

:stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

Zero of course :joy: But that’s why I said and viceversa. Truth be told nobody is special in the eyes of SG.

Most people who play the game have probably bought a VIP pass or a small offer. Whales and f2p are the minorities.

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