Why are some OP heroes nerfed, but others arent?

You may wanna re check that, champ.
By my count I’ve got 42 (and that’s including 8 that self buff) non s1 heroes meeting that criteria.
As mentioned 8 buff themselves. Down to 34.
3 healers. Down to 31.
8 blue heroes that more often than not will be left home because of Telly. Down to 23.
Mok arr, g. Owl, norns, sargasso. Down to 19.
Those 19 look like this:
Alfrike, Captain K, G. Panther, Hel, Jabberwocky, Kage, Lady Locke, Lady Loki, Natalya, Rana, Red Hood, Roc, Santa Claus, Sir Roostley, Thoth, yonan, zeline, and white rabbit.
11 of those 19 securely behind the paywall of event summons (up the count if you include seasonal summons as a paywall), but we’ll leave ALL of them in consideration, for arguments sake.
Of those 19 how many have even a quasi-counter for chain-hit specials?
Alfrike and Hel can stop him from firing, I guess.
So that’s 2.
1 hard counter- Mitsuko.
Soft counters (that dont self buff, non s1): 2
Throw s1 in there and you have 3 more soft counters (and I’m being generous) Joon, Justice, Leonidas.
1 hard counter.
5 soft counters that dont buff or self buff.

A deeper peek at that “45” shows there isn’t much meat on that bone when it comes to countering Finley.

Now I’m waiting for the “team synergy” line, but one of, if not THE, primary way synergy is achieved is through confluence of buffs, debuffs, and ailments. Finley effectively removes a third of that equation.

Playing devils advocate: ok no nerf. Can we get a 4 and 5* hard counter?
One that breaks the chain hit. (Not counting Malosi bc of his elemental link, but hell if you wanna we can :wink:
Or the elemental link being dropped like stated earlier would be effective.

because those heroes are rare and people will spend money trying to get them. they are either event heroes, which are hard to get, or old HOTMs and you can get them only through ToL.
everybody and their grandmothers dug deep into their pockets to get Telluria, that is why there were so many of her. SG’s greed used, abused and discarded her.

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Guin was uncommon.
Got nerfed twice.
The whole “rare” argument is a, say it with me, “moot point”.

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And yet, Finley or Jabber don’t seem to be breaking the game :man_shrugging:

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My game works just fine.
Original telly and vela? Sure they were broken.
This version? Nah.
Shoulder shrug all ya want, wont change the fact that the whole rebalancing ouroboros this game has gotten itself into wont ever cease until enough people are driven away.
Why cant they release other really good tanks of different colors?
Maybe listen to their beta testers when they point out really obvious stuff.
Before Boss wolf went live his synergy with guin was INSANE, they listened to their beta testers and “fixed” the issue before it went live.
Now there’s a complete disconnect and it seems like they’re just throwing stuff at the wall and it doesn’t matter if it sticks or not, they’ll just randomly choose one of those hunks of “stuff” and run with it.

This is just my opinion, but I really don’t think Jabberwocky and Finley need a nerf.

Jabberwocky is lackluster on offense and any adjustment to him will make him worse there. He’s challenging on defense due to his damage and undispellable DoT but there’s ways to prevent that too (Grazul, HoT can soak it up, put your monks or Clarissa in the corner, etc).

Finley is a huge threat on defense for sure, but just like Jabber there’s ways to shut him down. When I don’t have Mitsuko to use, I fall back to Joon and Neith to blind his face – one miss stops him from hitting anyone else in your team. There’s also Inari and cKadilen and even Margaret who can dodge his hit and prevent him from continuing to hit.

So IMO, I think there’s a fair bit of counterplay to Finley and Jabberwock. They’re both incredibly powerful heroes but I wouldn’t say that they’re OP enough to justify a nerf myself.

As for why Vela and Telluria are revisited now, honestly I can’t say. Even all of the other moderators I talked with were caught off-guard by that announcement too.

EDIT: but what Elpis said below me is probably correct

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The faster answer is because GTV is really affecting their revenue.
A boring game about always the same teams over and over is a game not really funny (so you likely are less inclined to spend).
Grave is too old to work on now, so they try to restore some balance with the other two.

Fact is, they really mess it up big time with Telly.

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I agree. Jabber and Finley and the new Vela are parts of my HILHs (Heroes I like to have). I do not understand why Vela has to be improved. She is changing to a fast Insarnia + freeze damage - a little bit to much for my point of view.

The 10% reduction for Telly I would accept even so she is my actual center. But after this, changes should stop, because there are other good tanks in my team and I would be nerved, if I would recognize, that I set my resources and time on the wrong hero, because he decreases each update.

There are appearing new heroes in this game an I guess that the possible advantage of Telly is only a question of time. So I am not afraid of Gravemaker now, but there was a time my teams were.

Cheers Reeder

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Thank you, Elpis.
I appreciate the logic, that actually makes a modicum of sense.

Yet the dodge heroes kinda set Finley up in the first place, with all those, ya know, buffs.
But again, well thought out, with salient points actually answered with a fairly original, honest reply. Thanks dave

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I apologize for any snarkiness.
It’s just I cant really get with stuff being good for the goose, but not the gander.
Elpis took the common complaint of “all raids/war being the same” and expounded on it showing how its affecting SG’s pockets, and consequently, how it affects their decision making.
After digesting everything, I feel much more at peace with the silly application of buffs and nerfs.

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This is why they won’t nerf Finley…he’s a cash cow for the Pirates event. People want the best hero in the game, so they will pull, pull, and pull! The only time they’ll consider nerfing him is when enough people get him and the pulls dry up. Then they’ll decide the nerf is needed.

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Not gonna happen, they will never let enough people have him.

I don’t really feel that Finley is OP…I mean technically he is, but he’s always there on the left wing and he becomes my immediate target when playing against teams with him. Most of the time he doesn’t even fire in my battles with teams that have him. I make sure of it.

Haha well you wouldn’t just use dodge heroes to set him up. You’d use them to protect your team once they’ve been buffed by someone else like your costume Rigard or the like.

Since we rely on heroes that buff every day (even those with element links for e.g.) those dodge heroes can be used to protect from Finley.

I understand the angle your getting at now, with the dodge mechanic.

The overarching theme of the topic is: what is fueling these “rebalancing” acts? How are the heroes involved selected? What recourse do we have to effect these changes?
It’s just couched in “why nerf some and not others?” rhetoric in order to get the discussion going.
If we can lay bare some of the logical fallacies present in current hero rebalancing and construct, wouldn’t that help paint a clearer picture to both the players and devs as to what may need to be done?
When Telly first came out @Rigs posted on one of the topic s laying out the similar skill sets of heroes like telly, then contrasted their mana speed and other issues.
It was a thorough examination of why and how telluria was initially unbalanced, and tbh there wasn’t much wriggle room to disagree. The logic was airtight.
This post has shown that there’s plenty of gray area and differing opinions, it’s no longer a crippling consensus, so why keep fixing something, that was broke, but then fixed, and never broke again?
Like replacing a flat tire one week, then the next week you roll up and ask for a new tire because you lost a little pSi. The tire dude is going to look at you crazy (I mean hell sell you the tire anyways, just like sg will sell you them gems, anyways), because he just replaced that tire and it’s in almost perfect shape. Only a little air is needed (more direct counters, better tanks of other colors, look at creating other powerful synergies, idk I’m not a developer or beta tester).

So yeah.

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GM gets nerfed and there will be a riot all the spenders in the top rankings have him

Actually, you’re the one who should recheck your calculations, as I counted a total of 46 legendaries who don’t apply any buffs to the team. (I also included costume S1 heroes as they can hold their weight against event heroes and are not the same as normal S1). 46 is quite a lot to choose from, and that’s not considering 4* either. It’s not like you can’t bring heroes who buff either-heroes who only buff themselves (or lone-colour hotm) are a lot less of a liability vs Finley. You can even take heroes who buff your entire team-you just have to be careful when you fire them(hence why I said buffing healers were not a good idea as often heals can’t wait.)

He won’t chain if you bring heroes who don’t apply buffs…

Like I said, he already has a hard 5* counter-JF. Jean will buff ice defence by 94% (so his special won’t hit for much at all) and he will replace Finley’s defence down with +46% defence. Jean is also fast, so has a good chance of firing before Finley.

I took no s1 to mean just that. NO S1. Qualify your statement like you did in previous reply earlier in the discourse and snafus like that can be avoided.
JF is a valid point. I’ll own that.
Kinda missed the whole gist of the breakdown though: his presence on a defense team dictates ENTIRELY too much of special deployment and hero selection to the point that it breaks effective synergies that otherwise could be formed with something as simple as exclusion of elemental link. It’s easy to get caught up in the details, but 2 hero counters for a guy that eliminates the most generous portion of safe, smart, synergistic heroes from usage or play (moreso, I’d argue than any other hero) with a fast mana’d special is BS.
Something as simple as excluding elemental link like someone mentioned. This opens up a myriad of avenues with a few solid recent HOTM being opened up to deal with him. The synergy possibilities would go up.
And about the 19 “not needing a chain hit block bc they dont buff” once again missed the larger point. If one of those 19 did they could be included in a team with buffers (like you mentioned with JF, still smarting from that intellectual butt whooping lol, or with Mits).
Overriding sentiment of today’s e n p climate seems to be a craving for a VARIETY of powerful synergies, not just one or two. Having a guy like Finley around disrupts such a large portion of the hero pool that achieving multiple schemes for synergy on offense against defenses with him is either a gamble, JF or Mits, or so safe that you severely limit your options.

I really don’t see why everyone thinks Finley is so overpowered. I usually just ignore him when I see him on defense and I’ve never had much of a problem with him at all… He’s a very good hero, but he is not overpowered and doesn’t need a nerf.